We talk about herd dynamics
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Talk

We talk about herd dynamics

This is a discussion on We talk about herd dynamics within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

    Like Tree14Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        02-12-2013, 04:22 AM
      #1
    Started
    We talk about herd dynamics

    Let us get more in depth? I see so many threads where horses don't know how to be horses or people who don't understand that horses don't or should see us as a part of the herd. I'm sure there is absolutely no way I can explain it in words that everyone would understand. I know my herd. I'm not asking for help. Just for y'all better with words to maybe explain it for others. In an openly viewable non confrontational spot.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        02-12-2013, 08:49 AM
      #2
    Green Broke
    I get what you're saying but I'm not good at those explanations either

    You're horses are probably at home, where you have the ability to study them and be with them, just doing nothing and watching reactions; even if you have a job to go to every day.

    Folks that board their horses are at a huge disadvantage in a conversation like this. So are their horses.

    Horses oftentimes just get "thrown about" at boarding barns and never are able to figure out quite where they belong.

    I had to board for 5 or 6 years and three of those horses are still with me. What a change in personalities once I got them out of a boarding situtation.

    They had excellent care and much thought was given, at that small barn, as to who got turned out with who. The attention they received, including from me, was completely different than when they're on their own property; it shows in their attitudes toward me and how they interact with each other.

    Folks that have to board miss out on a lot, in this regard. I think it really hampers them having a true understanding of how their horse thinks. It might even lead to the "why can't I connect with my horse?" question

    Then there are some folks who are what I call "surface people" that don't care to pay any attention at all to things like herd dynamics and never will "get" why their horse thinks like it does
    smrobs, flytobecat and dbarabians like this.
         
        02-12-2013, 09:25 AM
      #3
    Showing
    Keeping a horse in a stall even overnight isn't doing it any favors as walking helps pump blood and aids in digestion. A stall also forces a horse to stand near another that perhaps it would rather not but it doesn't have the freedom to walk away. This creates stress. Also a stall is a trap and horses worry about predators. It relies on a fast getaway to escape. Horse do seek a dark shelter when the bugs are bad as the bugs prefer light but they need to be able to leave when they are concerned a predator may be lurking. There may be no predator but it is their alertness that has assured their survival.
    dbarabians and boots like this.
         
        02-12-2013, 12:31 PM
      #4
    Started
    I think there is an advantage to having your horse at home when it comes to learning herd dynamics. I also think that there are profound benefits to horses having as much out door time as possible.

    This herd dynamic has me all kinds of confused. Our three mares have a strange pecking order. The situation is complicated by our lack of creativity, thus we have two mares named Rose. Old Rose (who is 15) and the mother of and young Rose (who is 7). Burt will push off young Rose but gets pushed off by old Rose. Old Rose gets pushed off by young Rose but pushes off by Burt. Young Rose gets pushed by Burt but pushes old Rose. So the order where = is pushed and -> is pushing Burt = old Rose who is = young Rose. Burt -> young Rose -> old Rose. So if Burt can push a horse that pushes a horse why can't she just push the horse? This makes no sense, but if Burt can push young Rose off food and young Rose can push old Rose why can't Burt just push old Rose? They have this strange could it be due to the fact that old Rose is the mother of young Rose?
         
        02-12-2013, 12:51 PM
      #5
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Keeping a horse in a stall even overnight isn't doing it any favors as walking helps pump blood and aids in digestion. A stall also forces a horse to stand near another that perhaps it would rather not but it doesn't have the freedom to walk away. This creates stress. Also a stall is a trap and horses worry about predators. It relies on a fast getaway to escape. Horse do seek a dark shelter when the bugs are bad as the bugs prefer light but they need to be able to leave when they are concerned a predator may be lurking. There may be no predator but it is their alertness that has assured their survival.
    Exactly! I feel so sorry for horses that are stalled all of the time. They are bred & designed to be moving, not standing in a wooden box, which is exactly what a stall is.
    No matter how nice your barn may be, no stall will ever be big enough for a horse to trot and run around in. The most they can do is spin circles and it is no different than owning a big, high-energy dog and keeping it locked up in a wire crate in the house all day and only taking it out for a walk once in awhile.
    I know that I would hate to be cooped up in a room with nothing to do all day, no matter how "safe" someone thought it might be for me.
    dbarabians likes this.
         
        02-12-2013, 01:52 PM
      #6
    Green Broke
    Are you talking about people thinking they can do the whole Black Stallion thing and friend/love a horse into doing what the human wants?

    Or wanting to understand herd dynamics?

    Or the incidents of people getting horses and spoiling them by letting horse get upper hand?
         
        02-12-2013, 02:55 PM
      #7
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rookie    
    I think there is an advantage to having your horse at home when it comes to learning herd dynamics. I also think that there are profound benefits to horses having as much out door time as possible.

    This herd dynamic has me all kinds of confused. Our three mares have a strange pecking order. The situation is complicated by our lack of creativity, thus we have two mares named Rose. Old Rose (who is 15) and the mother of and young Rose (who is 7). Burt will push off young Rose but gets pushed off by old Rose. Old Rose gets pushed off by young Rose but pushes off by Burt. Young Rose gets pushed by Burt but pushes old Rose. So the order where = is pushed and -> is pushing Burt = old Rose who is = young Rose. Burt -> young Rose -> old Rose. So if Burt can push a horse that pushes a horse why can't she just push the horse? This makes no sense, but if Burt can push young Rose off food and young Rose can push old Rose why can't Burt just push old Rose? They have this strange could it be due to the fact that old Rose is the mother of young Rose?
    I think babies can throw a monkey wrench in the herd dynamics when it is a small group.
    I saw a 3/4 month old pinning ears and kicking its mother while I was at the barn this week.
         
        02-12-2013, 03:07 PM
      #8
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Palomine    
    Are you talking about people thinking they can do the whole Black Stallion thing and friend/love a horse into doing what the human wants?

    Or wanting to understand herd dynamics?

    Or the incidents of people getting horses and spoiling them by letting horse get upper hand?
    I interpretted the OP's thoughts more along the lines of understanding herd dynamics and wanting to expand on the thought for those who don't have a clear vision (or any vision for that matter) of what it is.

    Thus the reason I responded like I did

    Rookie, I need to re-read what you wrote but I think I get the gist of it. It sounds as if you have an alpha horse (the 15 yr old) that really didn't ask for the position but has it anyway

    With my four, there is no question who is Alpha dominant. The second-in-command horse is actually what Mark Rashid refers to as a Passive Leader; something I never knew about until I read his books.

    My Passive Leader has no desire to take charge of the herd; he is the horse that numbers three and four go to when the strong alpha dominant gets in a snit and starts running everyone willy-nilly.

    Now that the alpha dominant is 25, that only happens if a thunderstorm is rolling in at dusk and I know I had better get everyone in the barn before he drives them all crazy He is a genious at herding the other three to safety in daytime storms but, if it's getting dark, he panics and that is something that has come as he's gotten older.

    That all being said, my alpha horse is grooming #3 for the lead position. Even my vet picked up on that as he watched them in far pasture, one day.

    And, oddly enough, I have been watching the Passive Leader (my Arab, who will be 27 in April) working with #4 horse, who is so passive he lets the #3 horse run him into the fence. #2 has been teaching #4 to stick up for himself a lot more, these days. #4 has been here 6+ years so I don't know why this all took so long -------------unless my precious Arab knows something about his health that I don't
         
        02-12-2013, 03:19 PM
      #9
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aldebono    
    I think babies can throw a monkey wrench in the herd dynamics when it is a small group.
    I saw a 3/4 month old pinning ears and kicking its mother while I was at the barn this week.
    My number 3 horse is the most disrespectful and rude horse I have ever owned in my entire life.

    A few people have surmised that his mother never disciplined him and that is why he has such an ugly disposition - especially in the pasture but he is still horse number 3. He really wants to be in the lead position but my alpha keeps him at length on that.

    He couldn't handle the position anyway - I have seen that with my own eyes. If something scares him up on the ridge, he will not stand his ground, he will run from the paddock into his stall.

    Based on my horse, who is nothing but bully and would beat everyone up, if he could, colts that bite and kick their mother, are going to bite and kick the rest of the world. It's kind of like the old saying "if you don't respect your mom, you wont' respect anyone"
         
        02-12-2013, 03:28 PM
      #10
    Super Moderator
    I'm not sure if I understood right but horses are horses and we are humans - they know we arent horses. They have to respect us and trust us as a leader but not in the same way they treat each other
    People tend to see the alpha horse as the one that pushes the others around yet this horse is comparable to a human bully and is usually avoided by the others. Our mare that behaves like this is actually the one who is most clingy and dependant on the others. If I watch them when somethings going on that's maybe stressing them or needs one to lead the way its always going to be Willow who is very passive and will be the one standing back letting the others get to the hay first yet if she does want to be in control she just walks through and the others make way for her with no sign of aggression
    I don't agree with horses being stabled 24/7 but - I can watch my horses from my windows - they will have a quick run round and then spend most of their day in one place if its winter and reliant on hay and in the summer they will move slowly around as they graze - horses survived by knowing how not to waste energy by trotting around all day long for something to do
    My lot have been out since 7am this morning, they have hay in the field but will still be waiting patiently by the gate to come in by 6pm - if they hated it so much I'm sure they would be as far away as possible
    When its cold, snowy, rainy its more likely that they have to be pushed out in the morning and would be right back in again if the gate wasnt slammed shut behind them
    Wallaby, bsms and FaydesMom like this.
         

    Quick Reply
    Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
    Message:
    Options

    Register Now

    In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

    Already have a Horse Forum account?
    Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

    New to the Horse Forum?
    Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

    User Name:
    Password
    Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
    Password:
    Confirm Password:
    Email Address
    Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
    Email Address:

    Log-in

    Human Verification

    In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


    Old Thread Warning
    This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Lovely little gypsy filly taking a lesson is herd dynamics Ashleysmardigrasgirl Horse Pictures 4 12-07-2012 12:46 PM
    Herd Dynamics or Fashion Faux Pas CDL Horse Training 0 01-25-2011 09:15 PM
    Herd dynamics - adult with youngsters nativecob Horse Training 7 01-20-2010 12:16 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:43 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0