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What is horse rescue/ when to breed.

This is a discussion on What is horse rescue/ when to breed. within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

     
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        12-02-2010, 12:06 PM
      #11
    Banned
    I posted it in the other thread but I will put it here to clarify something and add - I am not anti slaughter. I think slaughter is a useful end.

    I am anti random horse breeding because I have spent too much time dealing with the end result of irresponsible breeding (mainly in cats and dogs).

    I realize breeding horses is different. But I still stand by my theory that the responsible people of the world need to make up for the not responsible people of the world when it comes to breeding animals. Breeding animals with papers does not mean they are responsible breeders or animals worth breeding either.

    I would love to think that everyone who says they will keep all the offspring of their animals would make sure their end was useful (and being a pasture puff at their expense is fine). But there are just too many people who say they are going to be there and when Dobbin is no longer cute on to CL he goes.
         
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        12-02-2010, 12:49 PM
      #12
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    Kitten, and I have to disagree with you. But I'll try to do it politely.
    Lol! I'm always fine with disagreements as long as they come with reasoning. :)

    Well, it all depends on everyone's own definition of the rescue. To me the true rescue is when you give a good chance to the horse heading towards the death (or at least a very high possibility of that) by getting it out of the situation (whether it's a owner who's starving it or the meat dealer) and providing it with the care (you can count everything here such as health expenses, quality feed/hay, training, whatever). It was "rescued" because it was given a chance to live. But ANY rescue will involve money - whether you buy a horse or it was taken from someone by AC and (always) needs to be sucked back to health.

    What I do agree on though is that too many people call "rescues" what was not a rescue in any way (as was already mentioned, provided a shelter while before the horse had just trees to hide under ).

    AB, if you are taking a horse from the totally crappy situation (meaning he's getting towards the end), yes, I'd call it a rescue. If you take it from OK situation to the better life - it's upgrade.

    My qh was an "upgrade" (although I still think there was a good chance for her to end up on meat truck, because she was very undersized, had no handling at 1.5 years old, and had a very strong attitude not everyone was happy about). Almost all horses from my paint's place ended up on meat truck (and she came to me unhandled and abused, and her issues are still there after 4.5 years with me). So I'd call her a "rescue" (I'm happy the guy at least agreed to sell her to me, because he refused to sell any horses to some people "just because").
         
        12-02-2010, 12:53 PM
      #13
    Showing
    I'd also like to add, just because your horse is head shy, doesn't like its back feet messed with, or is a butthead under saddle does NOT mean it was abused! Gah!

    All that means is the horse has gaps in its training, or just doesn't like certain things. That, even more than the word 'rescue' being throw about willy-nilly for purchased horses, drives me bonkers!

    Now, onto the breeding issue part of the question.

    The problem I see with crap backyard breeders as opposed to just regular backyard breeders, is that crap breeders will throw anything together as long as one has a penis and testicles, and the other has a working uterus.

    I see no concern for the foal's potential, no research into genetic conditions of the mare and stallion, and no real idea whether or not a particular stallion will nick well with a particular mare. They just want a 'kyoot baybee', 'a piece of their mare', or think she 'deserves to be a mommy'. Blech. All bad, stupid reasons for breeding.

    Backyard breeder isn't a dirty term. I've known several backyard breeders who produced lovely, talented foals. But then, their criteria weren't based on the cheapest stud fee, or whether or not the stallion was homozygous for the popular color du jour, or had tons of hair that they were after, and thought they could get it cheaper by breeding instead of buying.

    I agree that the largest percentage of horses going to slaughter are products of the bigger, more prolific breeding farms. It's unavoidable, because with quantity, you're always going to get a glut of horses that are unsuitable, even if they were bred correctly. I don't like it, but it's an industry that generates a lot of money and a lot of horses for the general public, so it'll remain status quo.

    However, responsibility for producing quality horses is on everyone's head who wants to breed, NOT just the big farms.

    If you're not breeding for a specific meshing of bloodlines, talent, potential, and ability, then you have no business breeding. That's my beef with people, not the fact that they want to breed one foal for their own use.
         
        12-02-2010, 01:01 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    First I need to say that I am not against slaughter. It is a "necessary evil" in this world of inflated numbers and unwanted animals. I, like Cori, would rather see a horse put down before watching it suffer.

    THAT SAID, I would consider a bought horse a rescue IF, and only IF, you were saving it from some of the deplorable abuse that SOMETIMES comes along with kill buyers and overloaded trucks. Saving one simply from slaughter is not a rescue, saving one from abuse and horrible treatment on the way TO slaughter is. The problem here, is that you would never really know, therefore you can't say "oh he was a rescue" unless you know for a fact that you saved him from an abusive situation in which he would have suffered unnecessary pain beforehand. I have had many horses over the years that people have called me, said I have such and such horse with this issue or this problem, if you don't take it, I will send it to auction. Do I take them? Sometimes. Are they rescues? No. I do have one that I bought and paid for that I consider a rescue, because I know for a fact that he was being horribly abused, and he still has the scars, both physical and emotional to prove it. And it took money to save him. But he is an exception. Most rescues are not rescues, they are, like AB said. Upgrades.
         
        12-02-2010, 01:11 PM
      #15
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    I'd also like to add, just because your horse is head shy, doesn't like its back feet messed with, or is a butthead under saddle does NOT mean it was abused! Gah!
    Yeah, that's certainly true. Also the past abuse is NOT an excuse for the horse to kick the farrier or try to bite everyone and everything (especially after owning it for over a year).

    Apachie, I'd think any transport to the slaughter is rather abusive (from what I've read at least). They stuck lots of horses there and often don't provide them with rest/food/drink. If all drivers do that - I don't know. But I know for sure some do.
         
        12-02-2010, 01:14 PM
      #16
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    Yeah, that's certainly true. Also the past abuse is NOT an excuse for the horse to kick the farrier or try to bite everyone and everything after owning it for over a year.
    Exactly. That's owner stupidity at that point!

    Stop making excuses for your animal's crappy behavior and FIX IT!
         
        12-02-2010, 02:00 PM
      #17
    Banned
    On that topic...heres my little peeve about it.

    Didn't we just make the situation worse by making slaughter plants illegal while knowing that Canada was going to continue to allow slaughter. The point of shutting it down was that the transport was horrific. Long drives, no food or water, crammed into a trailer designed for cattle, not horses. Now we've just made the trip longer. Instead of changing the laws reguarding transportation...we just made their last journey longer. Does anyone else feel that this is really wrong?
         
        12-02-2010, 02:07 PM
      #18
    Showing
    Yes Cori, that's a really bad hot button with me.

    The antis weren't thinking past getting the U.S. Slaughter plants closed, so they're the ones directly responsible for the longer, more horrific journeys in less than ideal conditions these horses are made to suffer.

    To me, that's a complete and utter travesty. There's no reason those horses needed to go through that, except because of the egos and short sightedness of some people.
         
        12-02-2010, 02:08 PM
      #19
    Green Broke
    Yes, this is more my problem with slaughter than anything else, the treatment beforehand. And of course it will not change without a change in laws, because it is a money-saver to cram them all into a stock trailer and not spend anything extra to actually CARE for them in transit. It's all about greed and making a buck. That's what's so deplorable.
         
        12-02-2010, 03:09 PM
      #20
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    I'd also like to add, just because your horse is head shy, doesn't like its back feet messed with, or is a butthead under saddle does NOT mean it was abused! Gah!

    All that means is the horse has gaps in its training, or just doesn't like certain things. That, even more than the word 'rescue' being throw about willy-nilly for purchased horses, drives me bonkers!
    Absolutely!!! Of all the horses I get in for training more people like to tell me about how thier horse was abused than anything else. When questioned further they can provide no proof other than the horse is headshy or won't allow his feet handled.
         

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