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when terminology matters

16K views 184 replies 30 participants last post by  Change 
#1 ·
I thought i should post this, just for clarification, and to explain that there is noting wrong with using whatsoever terminology one wishes, when all that matters is it is a term that is used locally, with everyone understanding what is meant by it, when it is used as a substitute, and otherwise as to what it is defined as that word meaning, scientifically and nutritionally
I know many people call any horse bagged feed grain, and nothing wrong with that, as long as they understand what it actually is.
However, if concerned about hot or cool calories, NSC ect, then one has to know if that bagged feed actually contains grain-thus hot calories, or has basically has no grain, but cool calories in the form of fats instead.
If you ask an equine nutritionist, whether grain can make a horse hot, the answer will be 'yes'
However, if you are referring to some bagged feed , containing cool calories as grain, that nutritionist will thus give you an incorrect answer, simply because she /he will take the word grain, as to what it actually is
If this post is offensive, which it is not meant to be, feel free to delete, but I think the reason terminology does matter in some cases, had to be explained, as there was nothing personal intended
I think at times, political correctness, trying to makes sure no offense is taken, keeps simple basic facts buried.
 
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#2 ·
I agree that sometimes terminology can be very important. Another example is when people call a jointed mouthpiece bit such as a Tom Thumb a "snaffle." This can create quite a bit of confusion, which is one reason why I clarify with people and insist that any bit with leverage is not called a snaffle.

A recent situation: I was riding with a friend, who was wanting to try a bit on a horse that she had been riding in a sidepull. She told me she would use the bit she used on her own horse, since it was a gentle bit. Since I'd seen her bridle, I asked her if she meant to use her Tom Thumb. She said yes, saying it would seem good to start with a snaffle.

I explained to her that her bit was not a snaffle, but was a curb bit. I told her the reason this was important was that we did not know if this horse had ever been ridden in a curb bit, although I had ridden the horse in an actual snaffle. The horse does not know how to neck rein, so I told her I thought there would be a dozen other actual snaffles that would probably be better to try the horse in than a curb.

This concept was very confusing to her. Having heard that snaffles were generally the best bit to start a horse in, and believing that snaffle means "broken mouthpiece," she would have thought it OK to try to start a horse in a curb.
 
#4 ·
Especially when I hear that horses 'need' grain. Most horses don't need grain. Most horses DO need supplements in some shape or form. But actual, real grain? Nope, most of them don't need it.
 
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#8 ·
I tend to call it grain, it confuses some people, mostly on forums. I usually have to clarify myself but I say it without thinking.

Calling broken curbs a snaffle--that annoys me and I will correct it.

Half pass, vs side pass, vs full pass, vs leg yield. I've seen some pretty crazy definitions for those from different people. You'll raise my brow if you say you are teaching your young horse to half pass when you really mean side pass or leg yield.

But I don't know what any of this has to do with Political Correctness.
 
#10 ·
I'm sure that some of the terminologies, or differences in, are location based and a lot are 'age related'
I don't think I ever heard any feed called 'grain' in the UK, 'concentrates' is more commonly used at least among older horse people but if anyone did use the word grain I'd immediately think of the end product of some sort of cereal crop grown to produce edible seeds in the agricultural sense - agronomists regard the legumes to be 'grains crops' too because they're also seeds
It would help enormously if people stated exactly what they were feeding their horses when they bring feed into the equation and not just call it grain or some complete feed brand name
Turnout is another confusion - Is it grass turnout on 50 acres, 10 acres, 1 acre or a dry lot that's roughly the size of two stables. It helps to know these things when you're trying to give advice
 
#12 ·
Hey, jaydee, it took me awhile to figure out that in the UK you say "stable" when in the US it is usually "stall". Where I am from (both in place and time) a stable is the building inside of which are stalls.

So I have to ask-----I am old(er) and have never heard the term "hard feed". Please clue me in someone.
 
#18 ·
Filly Colt.........Seriously. Out here Foal is a verb, as in "She foaled last night and had the cutest little Filly Colt (pronounced more feely coat) you ever saw."

A Shar-leer Steer. Does not matter if it's a cow, it's still a steer if it's a Shar-leer (Charolais).

I grew up when grain or oats was pretty much all you fed in addition to alfalfa. We got corn, oats & barley (COB) and mixed it with dry molasses and some vitamins and voila, your 'grain'. Then came Omolene and what a convenience that was, but of course, it cost more than mixing up your own so we used it only for away shows.

Tom Thumbs & Kimberwickes were all in a class of their own and no reputable horse trainer used either one. I agree that a TT is not a snaffle but it's more than my life, and my time, is worth to argue that point with some of the cowpokes out here.

I think we have to give regional & age consideration to some terms and just straight out ask for clarification if we're not sure how things are being used.
 
#112 · (Edited)
Filly Colt.........Seriously. Out here Foal is a verb, as in "She foaled last night and had the cutest little Filly Colt (pronounced more feely coat) you ever saw."
This is an odd one.

At least half the people I have heard use this term have real Cowboy cred with dozens of started horses behind them.

Buck Brannaman calls any young horse being trained a "Colt".

Of course he knows the difference. I think the people who use "Colt" this way use it like the word "Kid" for human children, even though that is the real term for a baby goat.

Also, Cowboys love to use slang. It is practically an art form. There must be 10 different ways to pronounce "Brahman", but few people actually just call them by their actual name.

Listen to any of Chris Ledoux's early stuff. He must use every slang word for a rough horse, and probably still missed a few.

A classic example of what I'm talking about, just not with horse gender words.
 
#20 ·
Yes I agree with Drafty - Forums have members from all over the world and all different age groups so I see no reason why anyone should take offence if they're asked to explain a terminology that might be familiar to them but alien to someone else - likewise we shouldn't get irritated when someone uses terminology we're not familiar with.
All it takes is a polite query and a polite reply to sort things out

I'm someone who also prefers to use near side and off side - when someone says left and right to me I start wanting to wear gloves with L & R printed on the backs again!!
 
#23 ·
Most people in the UK will only think of a hackamore as the mechanical type because even though there are increasing numbers of western riders there and the NH influence has affected some the majority of ' English' riders still don't have 'bosal' in their everyday horsey vocabulary
 
#24 ·
Maybe it's because I've spent the last 40 years working all over the world, but this is almost a non issue with me. I'm just accustomed to making sure we're all talking about the same thing. Fortunately, I'm not in this position, but if you're feeding someone else's horse, or they're feeding yours, it's VERY important to clarify. Especially if you already know that some folks use specific words in a generic fashion.

Dreamcatchers story reminded me of the folks I grew up around. If a mare foaled, one of the first questions was "Is it a mare colt or a hoss colt?". These hillfolk would not give a rats patootie about yours or my expansive and highly refined horsey vocabulary. Most of them were raised using horses and mules for work and transportation. They knew what they were talking about, and didn't care whether you did or not.
 
#25 ·
The term "horse colt" is common here but not "filly colt". And "colt" may refer to any horse under the age of three or just green.

Hackamore , like I mentioned before, refers to a bosal, hanger, and mcCarty. A mechanical hackamore is always refered to a mechanical hackamore. It's actually pretty rare to see one here. A bosal refers to just the nose piece alone, never the whole rig.

But I've noticed these terms and how they are used differ region to region.
 
#42 ·
Ahh, now we are on my favorite pet peeve- wrong classification of snaffles and curbs, even by tack catalogs, as anyone that shows esp, knows when a bit is truly a curb and when it is a snaffle, regardless of the shape of the mouth piece, thus it is used purely for convenience, being easier to say then curb with a broken mouth piece!
A great oxymoron is that infamous `shanked snaffle`, as you are basically calling it anon leverage , leverage bit!
A snaffle has no leverage, thus the reins are attached in direct line of where that bit exits the mouth. Western bridles will often have a curb strap used with that snaffle, but it is purely non functional, far as the action of that bit, and serves a similar purpose as a cavasson on an English bridle
Since most riding snaffles are jointed, the incorrect association is made by many, that if the mouth piece is jointed, it is a type of snaffle_ Ie shanked snaffle
 
#47 ·
Speaking from a British perspective I've never heard of a Pelham described as anything but a curb bit and I've never heard of a kimberwick described as a type of Pelham - just as another type of curb bit
But that does take me to one of my peeves because the Kimberwicke/kimberwick or to call it by its original name Kimblewick (as it was named after the British town Kimblewick where it was first made) is not the same as the slotted Uxeter Kimberwick and cannot be used with two reins
If the pictures are working today:
 

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#51 ·
I tried to edit, but guess I was too late:

ETA: I should add: I was just thinking, I am fairly sure I only use right and left when discussing a loose horse, or if the horse is not in front of me. (i.e. a conversation with the vet discussing my mare's fractured right hind/back cannon bone is exactly as I just typed it. What would you say, the 'off hind cannon'?) If the horse is in front of me, tied while getting saddled, I know I have used 'off-side' and.... hmm, not sure 'on.'?
 
#66 ·
RE: bits.

This thread has likely been more educational for me than all of my random internet searching. It's obvious that here is a hug variation in terminology with the same words being used for different bits, and vice versa in different parts of the world.

What I think would be more beneficial when talking bits face to face, would be to talk function rather than terminology. WHY do you use this bit rather than the other?

And from my own experience, sometimes the correct answer is "I don't have a clue. The horse just works better in this one than the other".
 
#72 ·
I use my left hand for the reins. The right is for taking pictures. Unless, of course, my wife is taking the pictures:



Happily, my horse doesn't care. In practice, I use both hands on the reins 25-30% of the time, too. But Bandit & I will never show.

Terminology counts more when using the Internet. It is hard to communicate if one uses a well-known term in an unusual or incorrect manner.
 
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