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Why do we do groundwork?

7K views 73 replies 32 participants last post by  jaydee 
#1 ·
Seems like a silly question, doesn't it? We do groundwork because it's what is needed to train a horse. But what are we accomplishing, as owners and riders, by working with a horse on the ground that's already broke to ride?

In my mind, groundwork is a means of establishing and maintaining the horse's respect for the human and establishing trust. It's about capturing, and keeping, your horse's attention. For me, as a learner, it's also about learning more about the horse's body language.

I'm sure that, as I learn, more will become evident about what I'm accomplishing through groundwork.

What are your own thoughts about what you're achieving through groundwork?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Well it's always a personal preference. If your horses can do perfectly with no groundwork after starting under saddle (with time of course), that's awesome!

Personally I think that even after a horse has been ridden though, it's a possibility that it will get disrespectful or have trouble with something under saddle. In that case, I think working them on the ground is beneficial. I also agree with the OP.

If that happens, what do you do, since you don't do groundwork? I'm honestly curious about a different way to handle it. :)

Even though he doesn't have behavior problems, I do groundwork with my boy almost every time we ride, and he's not used for anything but trails and just hanging out and relaxing. I also think it's a good way to start introducing something new, because I believe the basics from the ground will carry over to when they're ridden.
 
#3 ·
I think you've about described it.

my trainer focusses a lot on how the horse 'feels'. and I know that sounds woo-woo, but she really isn't woo-woo.

if she sees a horse that gets all bunched up and sucks behind the leg when ridden, she will work on that horse's core feeling about going forward, and about how , perhaps, the rider has been nagging at it, or been squeezing up with her calves, or whatever.

My trainer might chose to work that out in the saddle, or may get the horse working on the ground better, but she looks to see the horse release the negative feeling about going forward. once that happens, the horse just literally 'feels ' better inside, and will ride much better.

sadly, goundwork done poorly ends up often putting more bad feelings into the horse. that's why, it's real important to find a good spot to quit when working with a horse, so that there are good feelings left inside.
 
#4 ·
I'm with JC, rarely do I go back to groundwork once they are under saddle. Unless there is a specific problem I feel can be better fixed on the ground, they cannot be ridden, or time does not allow it.

I'll lunge a young horse before I ride them until they show themselves dependable, or a new horse who has so far shown me that I'm not their priority.

Before being backed ground work is all about showing them what is expected once I am up there.
 
#5 ·
One of the things we worked with Oliver on in the roundpen a lot was yielding to face pressure. Since we were working towards bridle horse training, softness was a goal.

He had been backed but was very stiff and didn't like to give you his head. Using a rope halter and lunge line, we got him to give his head so there was no tension on the lead while he was going in circles of varying sizes.

It was a way of reinforcing a give to an increasingly soft pressure which helped under saddle with rein cues so that he could be ridden well in a bosal.
 
#6 ·
It's not a silly question, because everyone will have their own ideas.

Some people see ground work as being able to lead their horse, have it move away from pressure, tie nicely, have hooves handled, maybe loading in a trailer, essential work that you need to do to be able to do what you want on the ground. They typically will do this with a young horse, then once they get on and ride they concentrate on training from in the saddle.

At the other end of the scale are those who think that ground work with give them some sort of spiritual bond with their horse, that their spirits will merge as one, horse becomes part person, person becomes part horse, and they can telepathically communicate over distance.....OK I exaggerate but you get the idea.

Most of us will fall somewhere in between, I do not do any ground work with Gibbs, he would be insulted, he was highly insulted that I took him to a 2 day clinic as part of my getting up the nerve to ride again process. Fergie I do a little with, because it makes me feel good, and I do think it helps us build our relationship, but we do not do a lot, and that is mainly just yielding work, or recently simply hanging out at the scary end of the arena sharing chill time and doing stretches, and giving scratches.

I do believe that the definition and expectation of ground work has changed....it used to be simple...you had a young horse someone asked you if his ground work was done, you would say yes..he's ready to break to ride, or no, need another while then he will be ready to break. Once saddle broken ground work was never mentioned again.
 
#28 ·
It's not a silly question, because everyone will have their own ideas.

Some people see ground work as being able to lead their horse, have it move away from pressure, tie nicely, have hooves handled, maybe loading in a trailer, essential work that you need to do to be able to do what you want on the ground. They typically will do this with a young horse, then once they get on and ride they concentrate on training from in the saddle.

.............................................................................................

I do believe that the definition and expectation of ground work has changed....it used to be simple...you had a young horse someone asked you if his ground work was done, you would say yes..he's ready to break to ride, or no, need another while then he will be ready to break. Once saddle broken ground work was never mentioned again.
This is pretty much how I see it. I do think though, that most folks commenting here are working with their own horse, perhaps in a specific discipline. Since the early 1980's, with one brief exception, I haven't worked any one horse for longer than a couple or three weeks. Usually less. Then, they either go back into the rental/lease program, or they get moved on.

The horses I work with are trail horses in the simplest definition of the term. They're riding horses. They go from here to there and back. They're not nose to tail hack horses. They have a bit more spunk than that. But very few have any training beyond accept a rider, walk, gait (They're TWHs), whoa, and a plow rein turn.

Most of the problems I'm asked to fix have to be addressed from the saddle. Balking, buddy, or barn sour horses. The ones I start work with from the ground have usually been allowed to ignore their handlers. They're ill mannered on the ground. Some have been described to me as "nervous" or "spooky". These horses get lessons in ground manners. Spooky or nervous horses also get sacked out. If I'm taking one out for an all day or overnight ride, they also get sacked out with a big shirt and a rain coat.

So I guess my idea of ground work is on the rudimentary side of the scale.
 
#45 ·
I Guess I'm in the class that should try to answer 'why not'

Since the horses I have mainly ridden over the years, were horses that we raised , and that I then trained, I did not need to try and 'fix' basic training /handling problems with ground work.
Ground work , after the horse had been started under saddle, then just centered around good basic handling on the ground, with continuing softness under saddle, and training, better achieved by riding, after that initial ground work that taught the horse the concepts of giving to pressure, had been done.

Far as what we use our horses for-many I showed in various disciplines, and also rode those same horses out, just enjoying scenery together
Some were just our main trail riding horses, that we took on tough hunting trips, thus some learned to pack , as well as ride, learned to leg picket,pack game, etc.
I rode/ride many of the horses I showed/show, also out in the mountains, but usually did not/do not, take them on late hunts with hubby, simply because , while I don't want any horse to suffer an injury, get a scar, it simply did not make sense to risk that, on a horse with a show record on it
 
#8 ·
Hmmm, I've never even thought of why before ....

I do it when I feel my TB needs a tune up or is simply not reacting as fast as I would like him to or just when he's off with the fairies. I did it more when I first got him lots of yielding the hind/fore and lunging and putting the rope over his body. Just the basics because that's what I was taught.


I think you should start from the ground but know when you're ready to move one as well.
 
#10 ·
Oliver has now been under saddle for 15 months. The extent of our ground training is almost nothing more than a couple of times around each direction at walk/trot so I can observe any injuries he might have sustained since the last time.

The reason why is two fold; because he hates arenas (both roundpen and traditional) and being a natural trail horse, gets bored after about 1/2 hour. Secondly, because we have achieved some modicum of softness and lightness under saddle and can work it more specifically from the saddle in an environment where he is more receptive.

Again, the focus in bridle horse work isn't so much about obtaining respect (not saying that it plays no role) as creating willingness. Different focus in training after a point.
 
#11 · (Edited)
At this point, I'd rather work on things from the saddle. But groundwork can help a person read a horse, and learn how to read them without the danger of a horse exploding under you. I guess I view groundwork as something done more for the rider's benefit than the horse's.

"Personally I think that even after a horse has been ridden though, it's a possibility that it will get disrespectful or have trouble with something under saddle...If that happens, what do you do, since you don't do groundwork?"

I dislike the term "disrespectful". There are horses who don't know what I want them to do (don't understand what I am asking), or horses who understand but who don't want to do what I want them to do. If they don't understand the cue, then I might need to start over while standing next to them, and take a smaller bite at something. If they just don't feel like doing what I want, then we work at it using this advice from Tom Roberts:

It is to avoid using any expression that could possibly include punishment as a normal teaching procedure that I suggest you think in the terms:

“That will profit you – that will profit you not.”

These terms mean exactly – exactly – what they say.

“To Profit” is to benefit or gain: to be better off. The profit to the horse can be any reward or encouragement the trainer may think his pupil should receive – and it must, of course, be available to give.

“To Profit Not” means that the horse will gain or benefit not at all. Just that. It certainly does not mean that he will suffer a loss or be worse off – as he would be if he were punished.

This is what is so important about these expressions – and why I use them. By no stretch of the imagination can “Profit you not” be construed as punishment.

It consists of withholding any gain, reward, encouragement and profit. That, and only that.

Quiet Persistence

“It will profit you not” means that the horse will not be encouraged to follow a line of conduct other than what we have in mind for him. We withhold any gain – which means we quietly continue with our demands, whatever they may be.

We persist. We quietly persist with our demands.

This gentle discouragement of “quiet persistence” is something that horse seem to find irresistible. Whenever you are in doubt as to what course to follow, mounted or dismounted, revert to “Quiet Persistence.” Your quiet persistence is the real “That will profit you not.” It discourages the horse without punishing him.

I find those two rules cover most of what I need to do. But I'm not a fancy rider.
 
#16 ·
I still work on ground training even after they are broke under-saddle.. My thought is groundwork is never a bad thing to work on. There is always something I can improve on and sometimes my horses just need a break from saddle work. I also never work in an arena or round pen if I lunge a horse he is outside with just me and a rope no fence or rails or walls keeping him around me. when I was in 4h my mentor ALWAYS had us lunge and work from the ground before we got on the horse and we never had a problem with them. If we had a horse that didn't want to canter we would hook him back up to a lunge line and work him for a couple of minutes and then get back on. I guess its all a matter of perspective
 
#17 ·
Basically all I expect from my horse as far as ground work goes, is that she stands quietly for brushing, cleaning feet, tied or loose in her stall etc. this includes going outside when she is shedding and standing ground tied while I go over her with the shedding blade. She will stand quietly when tied up outside, to the trailer or anything else where I might need to tie a horse.

I want my horse to lead properly and walk and trot on the lead when asked, to stand quietly for mounting and self load into the trailer when I ask.
I also want her to lunge if I should decide to do that, this doesn't happen often but she should do it properly if I ask.
After they are a trained saddle horse that's about all I expect of them.
 
#18 ·
I do nothing but groundwork with my 2.5yr old filly. She isn't ready to be backed yet, so right now I'm doing lots of yielding, desensitizing & sensitizing stuff with her. I've been taking her for hand walks and working on getting her to respect me & trust me.

My 15 year old gelding I do groundwork with b/c he's not really that sound for riding. And I'd rather do something with him than nothing. He is also herd-bound, so I use groundwork to help him get over that issue.

On the other hand, my 18 year old riding horse I hardly ever do ground work with. Groundwork wouldn't really benefit our riding since I'm not running into too many issues. So for me, I figure it's just a waste of time on this particular horse. And he just gets bored anyway.

I think groundwork is important when working with youngsters, or dealing with a problem horse. But more to establish respect and get them thinking. There is a time when it is over-kill....especially when the ultimate goal is to RIDE my horses.
 
#21 ·
hahahahaha :rofl: :lol:


__________________



I do a lot of groundwork with my gelding.
I rarely ever did groundwork with my mare. Well, technically, I stopped doing as much groundwork with my mare as she got more broke and that's my goal for my gelding...he's just taking longer/has more things to work through. haha


With my gelding, right now, groundwork is a way to build his confidence and build his balance.
He has PSSM and, as a result, his body and his way of going have been severely impacted over the years [before anyone realized he had PSSM].
It's nothing that is necessarily permanent, but, for years, his body has literally been eating his muscle protein for fuel. Therefore, we are starting from a rather abysmal place, muscle-wise.
He's spent years with terrible body posture, with no concept of carrying himself.

In all his past training experiences, work has meant pain - immediate pain and/or longterm soreness.

He's coming from a place where everything about work is extremely negative - work is hard, often painful, and confusing/scary.

Doing a lot of groundwork has been teaching him [now that his PSSM is more under control and the pain is less] that work can be fun and sometimes makes him feel better instead of worse, there are things he can do really well and be praised for, and he's learning how to balance himself properly.


There's a sliver of a chance that he would have been able to figure those things out undersaddle, given the most perfect circumstances...but I think it would have taken much longer.


I'll probably always have to do a lot of groundwork with him [10 minutes of 'forced' walking, minimum, per day is pretty integral to managing PSSM], but who knows.
Maybe, one day, those minutes of walking could be done undersaddle. Who knows, it'd be nice!
 
#20 ·
To a certain extent everything we do with a horse before we ride it and after we ride it is groundwork because we're still insisting on the right behavior - when you stop doing that things can soon slide.
If a horse doesn't feel quite right I'll put it on the lunge to have a better look from the ground but if a horse hasn't lunged for ages its going to not give me a good view of that movement so I tend to lunge them once a month to keep them in tune with that - and sometimes doing groundwork gives me a break from riding not just them, they're still working and being challenged and my knees get a day off
 
#22 ·
This isn't what people think of as "groundwork", but it IS a part of every ride...what I do instead of 'groundwork':

Get the tack out. Is Bandit watching?



Go to get him. Does he meet me at the gate, or does he stay in the middle of the corral?

Lead him to where I'm going to clean and tack him. Is he walking comfortably, or on alert?

Grooming - any flinches of the back? Does he lift his feet willingly for cleaning? Does he hold them for me? Can I rub a brush against his belly in both directions? Is there any problem when I run my hand down his leg prior to asking for his foot?

Does he do this while grooming:



Yes, a neighbor was walking in their driveway...without a horse! So his attitude while getting ready to saddle tells me a lot about what to expect when I get on him.

Is he steady when I toss the saddle on his back? That's almost always yes, so a no would be worrying.

I don't have him tied up while grooming/saddling, so he can move around nibbling grass as I finish. But I'll need him to move where I want him sometimes...so, does he move easily? Or do I have to pull hard?

By the time I start hopping to get my foot up into the stirrup and mount (and yes, I need to hop to get my foot high enough), I ought to have a very good idea about his focus, concentration, energy levels, attitude, etc. If I have concerns about his focus, we are more likely to put in 5 minutes of work in our little arena prior to heading out. If I'm trying something new - such as today, when I was making a change in my stirrup length and having him go bitless - we might stay in the arena. If he has more energy stored up, it might be best to take him out right away. Yeah, he may spook, but he can get worked up if I ask him to concentrate too much on arena-type work before he gets the boogers out of his brain.

In a different environment, lunging him for a few minutes to assess him might help me. But the 15+ minutes it takes me to groom and tack him up is usually plenty of time to "pre-flight my horse", to use Parelli's term. I'm not sure how he's been lunged in the past, but it seems to make him nervous. It worried Mia too, so I've gotten used to not doing it. But that doesn't mean I'm not observing my horse, and thinking about what I see...
 
#23 ·
@elle1959 - this is good topic and thanks for bringing it up as it leads me to another question from more knowledgeable folks!

When is groundwork necessary?? As I always seem to get conflicting views from different people. In the 5 months I've owned Tess, I've done groundwork with her maybe 3 times. She is easy peasy even when she's nervous, and always respectful in hand. I've never had any temperament issues with her whatsoever. Our training issues are in the saddle, as both of us are fairly green to dressage and learning every day, but none of these issues are behavioral. They are more about communication and understanding and contact. But I have a friend at the barn that swears by groundwork and lunging and is always pressing me that I need to do it more.

Her horse (an eventing pony) is HOT, HOT, HOT and you've got to be an intermediate rider to get on him. He's thrown her more times than you can count and is basically KNOWN for his erratic behavior. He was passed along MANY times before he ended up with her and she has put 4 years of hard work into him (and a broken collar bone) to get him to where he is now. She swears that it is the groundwork that has brought him to where is he is now, which is rides without exploding or bucking.

I, thankfully, do not have ANY of these issues and feel 100% safe in the saddle with my horse. We struggle with maintaining balance in the saddle, but when I've lunged her, she has no problem maintaining balance, so I know its me. So with that said, could we still benefit from doing more groundwork, or should I just continue the work I have been in the saddle as I continue to see improvement from week to week? What situations is it called for??
 
#24 ·
I do groundwork more for me than for my horse. As an older, green rider with some confidence issues (partially brought on by experiences with my previous horse), one of the things I fell in love with was that my mare knew what to do in a round pen, and had the foundation in place (flexing, yielding, etc). I tried her 3 times over several months, and the third time when I had a professional with me who put her in the rp and put her through some paces, I honestly couldn't wait to be able to do that myself.

Kota's a little rusty... and I'm starting from the very beginning... but she has the temperament to tolerate me, and to let me know when I've got it all wrong - but the dance gets very fun when I get it right. She doesn't particularly like lunging (we get a little tail swishing when I've pushed it too long), but she's compliant enough to put up with it.

Anyway, on those days when I just am not feeling confident, I've given myself permission to just do a little groundwork and grooming and call it a day. We both like that sometimes. But more often than not, I'm ready to ride after a few minutes. Also, she's beautiful when she moves... and I get to watch :)

I'm pretty in love with my mare - more so every time I go out. It's just something else I've learned I can do with her, and that's great for morale.
 
#25 ·
To me I am ground working my horse the minute the halter is on. Is he leading nicely as always? Does he stand ground tie for grooming and saddling even in a grassy area? Does he stand for mounting? If the answer is yes to these questions no need for GW. If the answer is no, well then I will work out the problem then and there. Viole! GW is complete.
 
#29 ·
i think ground work can be about asking your horse, "Can you ____?" and see how well your hrose answers that question.

can you back up? can you step over there? can you stay there? etc.

when your horse answers yes, and seems ok with it all, then groundwork is done.
 
#30 ·
Ha Tiny thats about how my groundwork goes now. I do CA's fundamentals usually with a new horse before I really start riding them..once I start riding them I don't work on it much anymore from the ground. I alwayas ask them to back up a few steps before I get on..if they happily comply I feel they're ready to go. Then they have to stand patiently for mounting. If they move then we do my "ground work mounting game" lol. Sometimes I "play" with them to make sure they remember how to yeild their HQ and what not but I don't do full blown ground work sessions anymore.
 
#32 ·
I've been thinking about this topic because I'm getting a new horse and I want to get off on the right footing with him. I believe I was too aggressive with Diva and that this made her feel as though she had to defend her position with me. Having spent some time that was mainly saddle time with a different mare a few weeks ago, I'm thinking it's perhaps more important to ride more and lunge less while we're building our relationship.

Diva was super-sensitive and I really do believe that some of the groundwork exercises the trainer was doing with her made her more nervous and not less. I plan to be much more cautious about reading PJ's moods and body language and less interested in just doing the stuff because it's the thing to do. I hope to work with him daily and I will saddle him up the day he gets there.
 
#37 ·
Yes Yes! I've mentioned before that my previous horse was a MFT - and we had plenty of arguments. I think the trainer I hired at the beginning saw that she could be manipulative and was smart - and could be pushy... and seeing how inexperienced I was, he taught me to ramp up the aggression when dealing with her. Honestly, it was a toxic mix. Probably wasn't his fault as he was trying to keep me safe, but I just didn't have the instinct and timing to properly play the aggression card. I think the combination of finding the right horse, plus taking the time to get to know her, and giving her the benefit of the doubt is really paying off. I have never lunged her hard or aggressively (she doesn't need that at this point in her life - and like others said, would just be offended). The lunging we do is more of a game. So far, 3 months in with the new horse things are going better than I could have hoped. I learned so much from my experience with the previous horse - I don't think I could be at this comfort level with Kota without first having gone through that unfortunately. It was a crash course in horse psychology.
 
#33 ·
I always start with some ground work before I ride. But in all honestly, I think it's more for my benefit than for Barbie's.

I am a bit of a nervous rider and having that time to work on some basic showmanship patterns and doing a bit of lunging helps me calm those nerves. It also helps me determine during that time what mind set my horse is in. Does she appear relaxed? Is she on edge about something?

However, I also do believe it helps Barbie out as well as she can occasionally be a bit pushy at times.
 
#34 ·
I generally lunge my horse WTC before I hop on just to see how he's moving, if he's stiff etc. Rarely more than five minutes if I'm planning on riding. I also use it to make sure he actually remembers his vocal cues.

And frankly, I have plenty of horses to ride besides my own and sometimes I just DON'T want to get on him that day if I've already ridden four that morning. Winter doubly so. Lunging helps keep at least a little bit of fitness.

FWIW, my horse is much easier to work with undersaddle than on the ground, especially if it's a new handler. He'll walk through fire if he respects you, but it's remarkable how much of a jerk he can be to an uncertain handler. I can lead him with a pinky. For instance today I had to grab something from my car and instead of handing him off to a friend - I took him with me and had a horse's head poke into my Volvo. Does that count as groundwork? :wink::wink:
 
#36 ·
NO groundwork camp, here. Before I give my op....I should say that I am quite familiar with several of the NH "programs", so my theories are not based on shifting sand.

I do not want my horses turning to face me. I do not want my horses to automatically move away from any contact with the bit.
Respect has NOTHING to do with groundwork. It has everything to do with timing. Doing GW for 8 months with the wrong timing is not establishing respect. Respect is established in the first few seconds of interaction, because the horse FEELS it.

Bonding is a human feeling, based in familiarity. It does not have anything to do with GW. If you need to bond with your horse, that is fine, the time spent on GW may help establish familiarity, but if the timing is not there, things may go quite wrong when the animal you are trying to bond with gets bored and angry because you keep telling it the wrong thing.
 
#38 ·
^^^And this as well:)

I wonder how many people, that are so caught up in the lunging/respect thing might realize they could accomplish so much more, in terms of discipline and the horse learning something productive, if they long-lined the horse instead.. This is a graduation from lunging, once the horse has learned what it needs to learn.

I wonder how many people know exactly what long-lining is? No it is not lunging with a longer line:)
 
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