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Why don't past owners want to reveal themselves?

5K views 56 replies 23 participants last post by  myQHpaul 
#1 ·
Ok, now this one is puzzling me.

I wanted to contact the previous owners of the horse that I bought, to see if I could follow her lineage down and find out more about her breeding.

The woman I bought the horse from, said she was not able to tell me, because when she purchased her, part of the conditions of the sale was that she not reveal the previous owner's name.

I did find out that my mare could have been registered when she was born, but the owners of her Dam did not pay the owners of the Stud the stud fee, so they refused to issue papers for the foal.

Would that situation be the reason these people don't want their name revealed?
 
#2 ·
I don't want people calling me and bothering me about a horse I sold. I don't want to get an extended family along with every horse I sell. However, I don't go to any lenths to keep my name secret and I have had people call me about horses that I have once owned. Most are fine people but every once in a while you get somebody that wants to either chat for an hour about how they love the horse or tell you how poorly trained it is and all the mistakes you've made. The fact of the matter is that you have the horse you have and you should deal with it the way it is. Very rarely will knowing anything about a horses past help you with riding or training it.
 
#3 ·
^^ i like calling horses' breeders to find out how they were as a foal. And I suppose you should like that your horses are in good ownership. :)
 
#4 ·
Yes, I can see how some people don't want to be bothered by certain types of people, but what's wrong with someone wanting to know the history of their horse, especially if no information has been provided?
Would it not be easier for the sellers/breeders to just provide all the information they can on each horse they sell to begin with?
 
#6 ·
Smart!

Obviously did it because of people like you. If an arrangement was made during the initial purchase(which was probably was done for money saving purposes), they knew that someone, somewhere along the line would eventually be wanting to do what you want to do, which is to register the horse. I find it quite clever on their part.

Makes sense? in their shoes I would have done the exact same thing.
 
#8 ·
Obviously did it because of people like you. If an arrangement was made during the initial purchase(which was probably was done for money saving purposes), they knew that someone, somewhere along the line would eventually be wanting to do what you want to do, which is to register the horse. I find it quite clever on their part.

Makes sense? in their shoes I would have done the exact same thing.
How does it save money? And how is it clever of the breeder?
 
#7 · (Edited)
I work with all types of different breeders. And every single one of them likes to stay in contact with the owners. That way every time there is a success story, they can post it on their website or something and then it will spread the word about their horses. And it shows the owners that you actually give two ****s about them. It's just good business.

Very rarely will knowing anything about a horses past help you with riding or training it.
I'm going to have to severely disagree with this. I think the horses past has almost everything to do with riding and training him.
 
#9 ·
Ir would make my day if P.Ds owners called me up to tell him how hes doing and ask stuff. I would just love it! I understand if you are a big time trainer/breeder or something and you sell hundreds of horses, but like White foot said, wouldnt it be nice to here how your horses are doing every once in a while?

My2Geldings, i dont really understand your post... how would that benefit the breeder not to have one of their hroses registered?
 
#10 ·
I think it's just good business to call someone up atleast once or so a year or email them just to be updated. That's what I'm trying to understand, looking at it from a buyers perspective the only word I would spread about that breeder is how they conducted bad business.
 
#12 ·
white foot: exactly!, and if a trainer/owner disapeared off the face of the earth after selling me a horse,well,frankly,i would be worried about WHY. do they not care about their horses? did they sell me a bad horse? i knwo its not all like this, but thats what my first thought would be, lol.
 
#16 ·
My2Geldings, I have to say, I don't understand the logic of that post either.

But having said that, I have a registered horse. Well, at one time he was registered. In order to re-register him I would have to pay money to have his foal papers re-issued to me (proof being a bill of sale), then pay extra money to register him again. But in my case, papers weren't issued to me so that I could never race him, should I have an inkling to.

You'd be amazed at what you can find on the internet if you have your horses foal date, and their "official" (albeit unregistered) name, and even better yet, the sire or the dam's name.
 
#17 ·
I feel that if the breeder or seller can talk to me when I am interested in buying from them then if I have a question or two after the purchase is made it would good business to talk with me. Word of mouth spreads quickly if it is good or bad. If I was blown off by the seller or breeder after the purchase it would make me wonder about them.
 
#18 ·
If you have questions after the purchase then that's fine but if I sell you a horse and you sell it on to someone else and they call me I may not be thrilled with that. Not to sound cold-hearted but if I was worried about the horses wellfare I would'nt have sold it to the person I did in the first place. I have sold several horses at catalog sales and while I hope they went to good homes they were not horses that I had alot invested in emotionally. If I sold a horse that I had some feeling toward then I would do a private sale. I would not visit and call just to check in. I think that is an irritating thing to do.

As far as my previous comment about knowing a horses past. I think alot of people want to use a horses past as a crutch when thier training is going wrong. "My horse is scared of ropes because he was beaten with them" or "My horse has always done that. Nobody can make him stop" it may be the case that a horse was abused but you still need to get them over things.
 
#23 · (Edited)
As far as my previous comment about knowing a horses past. I think alot of people want to use a horses past as a crutch when thier training is going wrong. "My horse is scared of ropes because he was beaten with them" or "My horse has always done that. Nobody can make him stop" it may be the case that a horse was abused but you still need to get them over things.
I agree with this 100%. Though, I do think knowing the horses past does help, like genetics, and how I could deal with it, or what to expect.
No offense but I honestly would never want to buy a horse from you or trained by you. I know where your coming from, but I hope none of your previous buyers comes on here and reads this.

It makes me wonder what my trainers say about me 0_0

Roro, I agree. As long as you ask politely and if they decline I would probably ask why, but if they gave me a legitimate answer then I would just leave it alone.
 
#19 ·
Not everyone is like us. Most of the people on this forum love their horses and care about where they wind up. There are a lot of people that don't feel that way about horses. Some people sell horses for the money or to get rid of their problem and don't really care what happens to them beyond that. Another good reason might be if someone where to breed a horse, then refuse to pay the stud fees and sell an unregistered horse with a story that it could have been register...they just want to get rid of the evidence and not get questioned about the situation. Also, there could be those people that sell a horse and swear up and down that it could be registered but (insert a sellers excuse here) when in actuality the horse is just an average run of the mill type horse. Again the seller wouldn't want to be questioned.
My horse has an abusive past. I had to hire a trainer to work with us. Of course I shared that info with her, and she said that I should treat him no differently than any other horse. She said I should just deal with problems as they come up and not treat him as handicap because of his experiences. So far it has proven to be true. That makes me think Kevin is right about not needing to know their past to train them. Originally I probably would have been better off not knowing, because it certainly changed things when I found out. He's doing great now though, and he certainly isn't treated like a victim.
 
#20 ·
People bring me horses and then spend an hour telling me all the little details and cute stories about thier horse. I respond politely and smile and nod but I have totally forgotten the stories before thier car is out of sight. The horse is going to tell me what I need to know and it will for sure be the truth.
 
#21 ·
I am considering asking my horse's previous owner for some foal pictures. She has kept me updated on his half sister so I don't think it would be a faux pas. There is no harm in asking a previous owner about the horse as long as you recognize when to stop pestering them. People have the right to at least ask about their horse's past and/or bloodlines.
 
#22 · (Edited)
we have a horse that my daughter owns ,we have no info on him apart from he was sickly as a youngester and was handed on ,not his breeding or what he is ,he is not good with women being much better with men ,we'd love to know a bit about about his history ,he'll be treated as any other horse ,but even the livary that he has says that he is strange ,and has hang ups she hasn't seen before ,we know the person who sold him and she will not give out any info or pass on the name of the person who breed him ,(who they say is a freind ),who his dam or sire is must admit we would not buy off her again ,the contact we have is when she wants to know if i'm intersted in another of her horses
 
#24 ·
I think those of us with one or two horses forget that horses are a business for others. A time = money business. They do not have the time or resources to care about every horse they every trained or ever sold. It is not that they are some cold hearted jerk as much as they have other priorities.
I would guess that Kevin has horses from his past that even though he sold them to new homes that he is happy when he hears thru the grapevine they are doing well.
But fielding calls from some middle aged newbie that wants him to spend hours describing the minutia of every step of the life of 'the cute bay gelding who is between 10 and 14years old that you trained when it was a three year old' would really get old after a bit.

As far as the OPs case it sounds like there was some financial wrong doings going on there so that might be the sole reason they do not want contact.
Or it might just be the case of the people selling to you do not want to be bothered to look thru their files and find the information and give it to and the story about the previous owner is just that, a story.
 
#26 ·
I suppose. If they choose to.

I kind of thought we were talking phone calls here and they really are a different ball of wax.

An email you can ignore more easily and address when you have time, etc. It gives the receiver the ability to answer it when and how they want to.
 
#27 ·
I got my tennessee walker off craigslist, what started as finding a good horse that was already rideable (mine were young and green), turned out to be a rescue because when I showed up I could already tell he hadnt been taken care of. He was sick with a respitory infection that they said just started, thin, and had some cuts and bites from some stud horse they had just let loose in a pasture they had. They were idiots. Told me he was 7 years old and that they had him for 5 years etc. That the husband broke/trained him and they were loosing their pasture lease so had to downsize. Well after I saw him I couldnt just leave him there, but did tell them he had to see a vet because I had other horses to think of. They got him some meds, and I picked him up that weekend. Told me he was terrible about getting into a trailer, but he walked right on up like he did it every day. They were shocked. Got him home, got my own vet in for a second opinion, got more meds for him..and got him healthy again. The owners said he has never been registered but they had copies of his parents registration paperwork I could have. Well found out the hard way he wasnt broke to ride..ended up sending him to a trainer. But he was such a sweetheart on the ground..and what a personality. Did some research online from stud/dam owners, found a number to call that might be them..and guess what..it did turn out to be the past owner. And then I got the real story. She still has his mom and 2 of snaps brothers. She had never gotten around to fully riding Snap because she had shoulder surgery, those idiots I got him from had only had him for 3 or 4 MONTHS not 5 years..and they were supposed to call her first if there ever was a problem with them not keeping him because she would have taken him back in a minute. Now I send her emails with his progress, she is thrilled to hear all about how he is doing and that he did have a good home, she cried when I called her the first time and told her what condition I got him in. I also got pics of him dad and mom, as well as a larger history of his growing up life. So I guess in this instance it was good that I persisted in finding out because she would have always wondered since those people never returned her emails on how he was doing. All of this just to make 200 more than they paid for him. I never let those people know that I realized he wasnt what he was supposed to be, I wouldnt have taken him back to those people anyway..and he now is happy and totally rideable with me.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Some breeders sell their young stock unregistered, because they don't consider them good enough examples of the breed they represent. Which means they don't want anyone tracing the badly conformed, perhaps nasty tempered beast back to them.

It could seriously mess with their breeding program, especially if it's known that X stallion doesn't breed true to type, or that Y mare passes along an evil temperament.

This isn't anything new, and goes on at small operations as well as large ones. I could name several very large breeding operations that do just that, but I won't.

They're called 'culls', folks. Culls used to be killed outright, so I think the fact that now they're either given away or sold for a pittance with no registration papers is a better thing.

If the breeder doesn't want you to know who he/she is, then it's nunya. As in nunya bidness!

Just because something could be registered doesn't mean it should. The breeders are probably hoping if it's not registered, someone won't take it into their punkin' head to breed it later on down the line.
 
#32 ·
Most reputable breeders don't mind talking to you about a horse that was once theirs.
Unless the horse was a cull. A breeder doesn't want anything to do with a cull.

My late gelding's breeder went out of business many years ago. She's still very heavily into the VA Arabian scene, though.

I contacted her about 3 years ago, letting her know that I still had my gelding, and that he'd been loved and taken care of his whole life.

Never heard back from her, so I figured she wasn't interested. I let it go. Some folks, regardless of whether or not they're reputable, have no interest in the animal once it's sold.
 
#31 ·
Dog breeders do it, too. Which is why you now see merle colored dogs.

Merle is considered a 'bad' color because there are genetic abnormalities associated with it, and the puppies used to be destroyed. Now they're given away or sold as pet quality.

Unfortunately, some bonehead idjits decided that merle was an acceptable color to breed, so now we have all these fugly, ill-conformed, diseased dogs out there.

The AKC won't register a merle, which should tell these folks something.
 
#33 ·
I honestly can't imagine a GOOD reason for someone to explicitly require their name be kept private in a sale. Was this the breeder, or just the previous owner? It just seems like a big red flag to me and a strange thing for someone to actually demand during a sale...

On a side note, I contacted Danny's breeder when I bought him, because none of his previous owners ever transferred his registration and he was still registered to his breeder. I sent her an email, with an update on him and pictures, and asked if she wouldn't mind helping me sort out his registration. She was thrilled to hear about him, told me he was her first baby that she ever bred and always wondered how he was doing. Now we're friends on Facebook and she's able to see new pics of him whenever she wants!
 
#34 ·
It was the mare's Dam's owners. They sold the mare to the lady I bought her from.

The lady I bought her from said the mare was sold to her because they weren't doing anything with her and she was a good horse going to waste, so she bought her, re-trained her and put her up for sale. (That is part of her business, buying, training and selling)




I honestly can't imagine a GOOD reason for someone to explicitly require their name be kept private in a sale. Was this the breeder, or just the previous owner? It just seems like a big red flag to me and a strange thing for someone to actually demand during a sale...
 
#45 ·
If I didn't have the money to pay a stud fee I wouldn't want my name tossed around. That's why she didn't want her name released I would assume.
That's exactly what my post was about. It's the buyer's problem if they buy a horse with little to no information. It's something you need to ask about and look into when you are considering the animal, not AFTER the fact.
 
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