Worse Than Horse Slaughter! - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 58 Old 06-05-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by squirrelfood View Post
And human nature being what it is, if one dwells at all on the small amount of bad in anything, THAT part is overwhelmingly remembered and talked about, leaving the larger good out of the picture. That's how PETA gets so many followers.
Just reading the word PETA sends chills of disgust down my spine. Those people are idiots.
And who said anything about making the bad a big deal? This is one woman asking questions. She deserves a complete answer.
Simply having responded by saying that it happened in the past and has been cleaned up and then going on with the great care mares and foals receive is all it would have taken. What is the big deal? It's people working so hard to defend something that can make it suspect. You keep bringing it up. All I wanted was simple facts. My job was done already. You need to let it go.

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post #42 of 58 Old 06-05-2014, 01:50 PM
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MK, I think sf was saying the same thing you just did. I'm not sure where you misunderstood their intention.
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post #43 of 58 Old 06-05-2014, 03:22 PM
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I guess I do have another comment, only because PETA was brought up.
You want a PERFECT example of one group not representing the whole. PETA is exactly that. PETA does nothing but use shock tactics, making up stats to fit their own agenda. Doing stupid stunts that only end up causing more pain and death to the animals in question.
Example; breaking into a facility and turning animals loose, into the wild. This was done where chinchillas were being raised for their fur. Turning these poor creatures out into the wild sounded good. Unfortunately, the odds were that they would starve to death or be torn apart by predators. Perhaps, with time, they could have learned to be wild, but they were born and raised being taken care of, even if that care was pathetic. Pure shock and posing for the media, concern for the actual animals was sorely lacking.
That is PETA. That is not representative of animal rescue groups in general.
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post #44 of 58 Old 06-06-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
Your point here? I wonder who is more comfortable, my horses outside in -40*F temps, lots of freedom, but darn cold, or the PMU mare in her warn barn, fed and watered, bed to lied down in, kept clean and comfortable?
Your horse outside in the cold. No question about it. But if you believe the PMU mare is happier, why don't you keep your own horse that way?

There's a huge double standard here. If someone came on here and said they kept their horse in a standing stall 24/7, most people would say that's no life for a horse. But since the purpose of PMU is to make medication, that makes it all okay? You might think so, but I don't. Especially since there is a synthetic version of the drug.
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post #45 of 58 Old 06-06-2014, 06:10 PM
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There are hundreds of different ways to keep an animal and have it still live a quality life. I understand that because I like using medications when I am sick, or having a cast placed on my arm when it is broken that some animals have to live production animal lives. I like beef so some cows have to go to a feed lot and than to slaughter. If you feel this double standard is morally opposing and you wish to not be a part of it. Than subsistence agriculture and growing all your own food, and medicine might be the way to go. The problem is that subsistence farming is hard work. Yes, I am a bad person because I have needs and those needs supersede the needs of animals.
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post #46 of 58 Old 06-06-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post
Your horse outside in the cold. No question about it. But if you believe the PMU mare is happier, why don't you keep your own horse that way?

There's a huge double standard here. If someone came on here and said they kept their horse in a standing stall 24/7, most people would say that's no life for a horse. But since the purpose of PMU is to make medication, that makes it all okay? You might think so, but I don't. Especially since there is a synthetic version of the drug.
I don't keep my horses that way because I don't have the facilities, not could I be bothered with all that cleaning out. I also expect my horse to keep themselves semi fit during the winter, so I feed them in one place, water in another, and provide shelter in another.

Horses are creatures of habit, and these mares know the routine and settle into it, I'm sure it is stressful for some, and I expect that they get culled out of the program, and no I don't know what culled means in this context, shoot them, sell them, meat man? I still think that they may enjoy a better quality of life than many horses, their basic needs, food water, shelter, veterinary care are all provided, what they are lacking is liberty. I see many horses who have the liberty to roam, but are lacking the basics of food and or clean water, or shelter.

Does it make it OK because they provide medication? Well it gives the a purpose in life, I cant think that anyone would keep that many mares just for fun. Yes there are synthetic versions of the drug, but not everyone can take them, this is why the barns still exist.

IDK. Having worked in dairy barns in the UK, where the cows came in during the winter and were tied in stalls until spring, fed, watered and milked in the same place, I guess I am used to tied animals, I also am used to horses being stalled or stabled a lot of the time, so it really doesn't hit any ouch buttons for me.
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post #47 of 58 Old 06-06-2014, 11:22 PM
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Supposedly the pmu farms are better regulated and kept up... but, I remember how it used to be and read about it, I am still not a fan of pmu farms.
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post #48 of 58 Old 06-07-2014, 01:15 AM
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I remember when they would take truck loads of foals from the PMU farms down to Florida. I knew several people who rescued them, and they definitely were not in good condition! Some came in needing to be bottle fed, others were in poor shape, with rainrot covering them head to toe. They would get off the trailer barely able to stand, and absolutely traumatized.

I did have pictures, but nothing on my current computer.

They did make lovely horses with some nursing and specialized care. I was very glad premarin became less popular due to the health risks.

I don't know how much they have "cleaned up" their act. Just because they are breeding better quality animals, doesn't mean the horses they have are treated well. Especially when farms are not allowing outsiders to get access to that information, or see the conditions of the animals.

I know some states have been pushing to make it illegal for anyone to take pictures of bad farming conditions, even if driving by in your car.

PETA may very well use outdated pictures, as it is difficult and even dangerous to go "under-cover" and get access to that information.

There is a local animal rights group who had to sue the University of Florida, as they refused to release any records of their "experiments". Once the records where released, it was quite upsetting, as the experiments they are doing with primates are nothing short of torture.

They have a treadmill research program as well. If the horses are not adopted out at the end of the program they are euthanized. They sometimes put down perfectly healthy horses for other reasons. One time they needed eyeballs for some research... You would think they have enough horses put down for health reasons?

I actually rescued a perfectly healthy mare from them that they were going to put down. They didn't even attempt to adopt her out, I just happened to overhear that she was going on the "cull" list. One of the vets that works there has rescued beagles from them as well.

An Eleventh Hour Exclusive: Images of Horses Tortured Inside UF | Eleventh Hour for Animals

The above group does have extremists but given my experience with UF, what they have published is probably based in truth.

I have to believe there is a better way of doing research. Aren't there enough horses out there that are already crippled without needing to ruin perfectly healthy animals?
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post #49 of 58 Old 06-07-2014, 09:29 AM
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That is why the NAERIC was formed. They have very stringent rules. I do not know if there are any farms left that are not members, but it is doubtful as the NAERIC showed all of them that there was as much or more money to be made from the high quality foals kept in good condition.

The one that we bought from them is not the only one that has won a lot in National competition. The foals that other ropers have bought were in good condition when they got them here. One of them won quite a bit last year and went to the AQHA World. The NAERIC showed that one local horse had $1000.00 in AQHA World Show winnings that they matched. That roper lives about 2 miles from us. Other NAERIC horses had won a lot more in National competition. I think since they changed their methods, they have developed a lot of demand for their horses. Their foals used to be a 'by-product'. Now they are a main source of income for them. I have to support an industry that has made that big of a change.

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post #50 of 58 Old 06-08-2014, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Well in all honesty, I think that these horses were mistreated and I do believe that these farms found their mistake and tried to cover their mistakes. I have only ever seen horrible pictures, like I said I can't roam the world proving what is myth and what is fact. I think that most people that are trying to brush this off quickly know that it was bad but have seen that this farms have "changed" and that is all they need to put start putting good favor towards the barn dismissing any prior screw ups. All I really wanted to hear was everyone's opinion on this subject, which seem to be completely opposing. Who knows thought, usually with topics like this the truth is the hardest thing to find out.

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Last edited by Midnite711; 06-08-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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