Would I be crossing the boundaries? *Dog issue* - Page 3
   

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Would I be crossing the boundaries? *Dog issue*

This is a discussion on Would I be crossing the boundaries? *Dog issue* within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        02-10-2012, 01:47 PM
      #21
    Green Broke
    I didnt read all of the responses, but I just want to say, You can't train out what is bred in. You can only control it and direct it in a diffrent direction.

    I have very drivey JRTs. You can't imagen how meny toys we go through between the two of them, and on is only 12 weeks old. I don't hunt, but I do take them to lure coursing, and we do other JRT stuff at the house. I have more wholes in my ard than I could count. That's just the way they are, if I didnt want holes in my yard, and stuffing all over the house then I wouldn't have gotten a Jack Russell.

    Sounds to me like your cousin needs to rethink her resons for keeping this dog. I can't figure out why she would want that dog in the first place? She obviously didnt do any research.
         
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        02-10-2012, 01:59 PM
      #22
    Weanling
    You say she comes to your house to ride. Next time you make plans to ride, ask her not to bring her dog. If she brings her dog, send them both on their way. If you guys are as close as you say, she will respect your decision to keep your horse safe. She is completely aware that there is a problem and if she choses not to fix it then I simply would have naught to do with it. And if she wants to continue to ride with you, the next time she comes it will be without the dog.

    Going to her place to ride I can't think of a solution. Ask her to have the dog locked inside the house. Explain calmly and even nicely that this is for both the dogs and horses safety. You don't want your ride disrupted by it and you don't want her paying a vet bill for a broken dog..

    This breed is bred to herd and while some will listen to commands some don't. Even with impeccable training their instincts can lead them to completely disregarding all respect for their handlers. So the solution will probably not be in training the dog.

    Completely on a different route, when I bring my dog out it distracts my friends Border, maybe there's a dog your cousins dog gets along with that you can bring?

    I can understand your frustration and I don't blame you at all for being so vexed.
         
        02-10-2012, 02:52 PM
      #23
    Foal
    If you ask her to do something about the dog and she can't/won't then when she brings it to the barn catch it and lock it in a stall or tie it up until she is ready to take it home.

    It won't fix the problem but at least the horses will be safe. If this keeps on I wouldn't be surprised if there is a nasty accident because things go too far and one of the horses freaks.
         
        02-10-2012, 03:07 PM
      #24
    Started
    Thanks so much for your responses.

    I'll answer thquestions some of you guys brought up.

    1. I live with my great grandmother and she owns land. MY horses are on this land and my great uncle's land that is across the road (my horses are seperated at the moment...).

    2. My cousin's horse is on her parents land, just down the road.

    3. I do not ride at her house. She doesn't have enough land.

    4. We ride mostly on the public roads.

    5. She doesn't let her dog go when we ride. She brings her dog up here when I'm doing stuff like groundwork, grooming, etc... Even if she doesn't bring her horse, her dog is with her 24/7 unless we're riding or the dog is in heat.

    Hope that answers those questions! If I've missed any, let me know!
         
        02-10-2012, 03:07 PM
      #25
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
    AQHsam: You make a very good point. Hitting the dog will probably just teach it to chase horses where you can't reach it. The drive to herd in a border collie is akin to drug addiction. If it were the OPs dog then she could get some handle on it and redirect the drive but since its not then she's in a pickle.

    The dog likely won't learn by getting kicked either. If I don't keep an eye on my dog she will still go into the corral to torment the horses and she was almost killed less than a week ago.

    To OP: Maybe you should post this in a dog forum and see what solutions dog trainers could offer you. I've seen some trainers teach thier dogs not to get off a tub or block unless they're told to so that they learn patience. Ideally with a dog that has that much herd drive she would put the dogs need above her own and sell or give it to someone with a job for the dog to do.
    Thank you. My barn owner has a lovable, probably starved for attention border with sweet brown eyes. I would describe as "farm trained." He knows to stay on the property. And, he knows to get up when a horse walks by in the barn. But he LOVES to help catch horses. And, sometimes, he is actually effective and a great working companion.

    Other times he can create a mess of things and you want to shoot the dog.

    When my barn owner is working with unbroke or skitterish horses, the dog is locked chained to his dog house. It's not worth the fuzzy galoot thinking he is being asked to help lunge a horse.
         
        02-10-2012, 03:10 PM
      #26
    Yearling
    OP: Kevinshorses gave me an idea. Maybe you could purchase a used dog run for the property and when your cousin shows up offer to control the dog? Or buy / build your own containment system. The dog will probably howl, but I think you will agree a howling dog is better than a dog chasing a horse any day.

    I surely feel for you; it's family. And, family is family.

    Use an old lead line or go to the store (or shop online) and pick up a leash and if she doesn't have a collar, a buckle collar (not slip) for the dog. Be happy and offer to keep them at your house as a gift to her dog.

    While you are doing chores, if she is standing around watching, ask that she keep the dog under control on a leash. Just like at the vet. As long as she is holding the leash the dog is welcome. Then offer her a chair to be comfortable a little ways away from your horse.

    Or, redirect the dog's attention with a special treat inside a chew toy the dog only gets when it is at your home.

    Bottom line: you are not overstepping your bounds to direct her to maintain control (or put her dog under control). Unless of course your great grandma says you're being mean. :)
    Skipsfirstspike likes this.
         
        02-10-2012, 04:47 PM
      #27
    Started
    This isn't rocket science. Bring some rope with you and tie the dog up yourself. Problem solved.

    Stop waiting for your cousin to do something, because it's not going to happen. It's really rude and inconsiderate of her to bring the dog in the first place.
    Wallaby likes this.
         
        02-10-2012, 05:45 PM
      #28
    Green Broke
    I didn't read the responses so some of this may be a repeat...

    First I have ZERO tolerance for a ill mannered dog! Regardless of breed. Your cousin should be glad she is not my neighbor because if I caught her dog chasing my livestock, the dog would be dead. The three "S's"- shoot, shovel, shut up.

    Border Collies(actually any cowdog) are very smart, they have to expend that energy. Any dog that is bred to work will become obsessive and neurotic if not trained properly and has an outlet for using the training and ridding itself of excess energy. It is your cousins fault, not the dogs for not providing the leadership and exercise. The dog is forced to find it's own work rather your cousin providing the work for her.

    Yelling at a dog does no good when you are constantly yelling at it. It is the same tone so it means nothing. I use my voice sparingly with my dogs and if I do raise my voice they know they are in trouble. Also once the dog gets a hold of a chicken and kills one it is nearly impossible to break them of killing chickens. It won't be to much longer and your grandmother won't have any chickens.

    I am not sure whether you stated who's property this happening on but frankly I wouldn't care if the dog was biting my horses. I would tell your cousin to get the dog out and tie it up or you will beat her with the lunge whip. Obviously she has no desire to do any training so maybe you need to train your cousin.lol

    That ain't much of a solution, but if your cousin isn't willing to do anything with dog, their isn't a whole you can do unless you are willing to a little training yourself.

    These situations infuriate me! It is like parents who have brats for children and blame it on something else. No accountability.
         
        02-10-2012, 06:05 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    I don't think whipping the dog is a good thing to do, its got nothing to do with boundaries though. The owner has basically trained the dog to continue this behaviour, and I don't think its fair that you hit (likely harshly) an animal for something it was trained to do. It's cruel. Regardless of how it acts its not your place to get after it with a lunge whip (which people don't even hit horses with) because its doing all that it knows how to do.

    Whip your cousin by all means, because its her fault. And she'll understand why. It's in your rights to tell her to keep the dog away from the horse, and I would definitely stop riding with her until she does. She's not a responsible dog owner and if her dog isn't under her control it should not be leaving her home without a lead.

    Don't tell her to do something and wait for her to do it next time, tell her something, such as tie your dog up, and wait for her to do it. If she doesn't ask her to leave and not to come back with the dog. With your grandmother - she could easily ask your cousin to leave, and its not really your business to get into it.
         
        02-10-2012, 06:43 PM
      #30
    Started
    Thanks guys.

    I would tie the dog up myself, but she will rarely actually come to me. My cousin is the only person she actually willingly comes to when called.

    She kept her in her pen all day today while we were riding today and kept her penned up until her dad let the dog out about an hour ago (by which time I had already let the horses go and all, so she wasn't a huge issue).

    I'm a bit worried about this summer, though... My cousin will rarely pen her during summer beause she claims it is too hot (part of that is her parents fault... my cusin lives at home and her dad is very odd about penning the dog up... he'll le her out within fifteen minutes of penning her up sometimes and she comes straight up here) and she claims that it is too hot to tie her as well during summer when she's up here. My grandmother won't tell her to leave, either. My cousin is a little odd... she would rather tie her horse for hours instead of taking the saddle off and letting him in the Lot to rest, etc...

    I'm going to start making her tie the dog whenever she's up here with a horse, though, and if she doesn't I'll get it through to her that if she refuses to tie the dog while we're working with the horses, I'll take more action other than just telling her...

    I wonder what a BB gun would make her think? I'm not above pinging an animal with a BB to get the point across...
         

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