Is It Wrong? - Page 4
 
 

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Is It Wrong?

This is a discussion on Is It Wrong? within the Horse Talk forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        03-26-2012, 02:16 PM
      #31
    mls
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BossMare781    
    See and I just had the exact thing happen to me, but the other way around. I lease my mare to a girl and she decided to randomly cut six inches off her tail and about 2 inches off her forelock (squaring it off) and did not consult me at all. I know it's just hair and it will grow back, but I happen to love my mare's pretty forelock and thick, long tail and there was absolutely no reason for it. Plus, she flat out just does not have the right to do it without my permission. She is my horse. She has my permission to cut only her mane and only for shows. Period.
    We had that happen to a leased horse also. Now the lease agreement states very basic 'duh' things. Sounds silly but it keeps everyone on the same page.

    Our lease agreements also state how much the owner is involved with the horse (i.e. Can still use on Saturdays for trail rides, etc) . Nicole, maybe you need to revisit the lease and add an addendum about owner participation? Who knows the next time she might decide to trailer him out for something and you arrive at the barn and he's gone?
         
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        03-26-2012, 03:58 PM
      #32
    Cat
    Green Broke
    While I understand th OPs frustration, I can't help but wonder if the horse's owner heard something said or saw some actions - even if the things said were via rumors - that they interpreted in such a way that made them decide the person leasing the horse needed a reminder of who was the real owner. It might have been a way to say "hey, look - I actually own the horse, not you" without getting in an outright confrontation over it.

    And it doesn't matter if they were trying to give away the horse at one point - they are still the owners. There are horses I have given away in the past that I would have jumped on the chance of staying their owner if I could even if it was through a lease. If the owner didn't want to stay a part of this horse's life they never would have agreed to a lease.
         
        03-26-2012, 11:22 PM
      #33
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    You have no idea why she is leasing the horse, and have no right to make assumptions about her reasoning. If she didn't care at all, she would have sold it, don't you think? THis is a FREE lease. Yeah, you are paying the board, but it remains HER horse. If you want to chat with her, go ahead, but in the end, it is still HER horse, and she can do what she wants. Besides that, I doubt you are at the barn 24/7, and I would guess there are probably at least 16 hours every day when she could show up and you would have no idea. Truth is, just because you haven't SEEN her, doesn't mean she hasn't been there.
    I didn't assume anything I fprmed an opnion on the information I had the OP made it seem as though she were there enough to notice at least roughly how ofteen the girls was there. I still say she has right to be upset and let the owner but the owner my no means has to listen to her.
         
        03-27-2012, 12:12 AM
      #34
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samstead    
    I didn't assume anything I fprmed an opnion on the information I had the OP made it seem as though she were there enough to notice at least roughly how ofteen the girls was there. I still say she has right to be upset and let the owner but the owner my no means has to listen to her.
    Your "opinion" was to make the "assumption" that the owner "doesn't want to put forth the effort it takes to own a horse". That was YOUR statement. That was the "assumption" I feel is totally unfair. You are drawing conclusions without any clue what the owners situation is, and making it seem like people who lease their horses are somewhat "lesser" owners. That was my perception of the YOU wrote.
         
        03-27-2012, 02:17 AM
      #35
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    Your "opinion" was to make the "assumption" that the owner "doesn't want to put forth the effort it takes to own a horse". That was YOUR statement. That was the "assumption" I feel is totally unfair. You are drawing conclusions without any clue what the owners situation is, and making it seem like people who lease their horses are somewhat "lesser" owners. That was my perception of the YOU wrote.
    Well I'm sorry you misunderstood. Completely. I'm working with very little information and by no means think leasees are "lesser horse owners" that's actually what I got from your post it seemed like you thought your leasees opnion on what you do with your horse doesn't matter
         
        03-27-2012, 02:50 AM
      #36
    Started
    As much as you love the horse and think he is cuter with a longer mane and without the overdone bridal path, the reality is that he isn't yours. I think it would have been polite to tell you what is going on, however, it is not your right.

    Let's be realistic, this issue is only about hair. It sounds like otherwise you can do what you want with the horse. I wish I had a dime for every person that I have heard complaining because they leased a horse and didn't get the riding time they wanted or something of that nature.

    I understand your frustration. However, the horse doesn't belong to you. Nothing the owner did made him unusable for you. No need to mess up a perfectly good lease agreement over hair.
         
        03-27-2012, 09:27 AM
      #37
    Green Broke
    This would really annoy me.

    To be honest horses are often pretty cheap to buy, its their upkeep and training which is the expensive part. When you sign a lease you are caring for a horse, paying for a horse and training a horse for someone, to a point in time when you give them a theoretically much better horse, or a well fed, fit horse ready for them to spend their free time with. This is why I don't like leasing. It has its benefits for sure and in some situations works out brilliantly, but more times than not, the leasee ends up on the losing side.

    I don't know what the terms of the lease are, but perhaps you should revisit them. If you're responsible for the horses care, and perhaps any injuries that are caused during that time, what if she comes out, messes around with him and he gets hurt? Who is responsible? Does the barns insurance cover her considering she is there without your knowledge etc?

    When you lease other things in life, like a house, the leasee has rights. For example landlords must give a certain amount of written notice, they can't just rock up. An agent of a car leasing company couldn't turn up and change your car, it doesn't work that way. While a horse is a living animal, I think that the leasee still should have some protection, considering they are the one forking out the money.

    I'd have a talk with her, maybe tell her you know she might want to see the horse, but to give her a call so you can meet her out there.
         
        03-27-2012, 09:42 AM
      #38
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saskia    
    This would really annoy me.

    To be honest horses are often pretty cheap to buy, its their upkeep and training which is the expensive part. When you sign a lease you are caring for a horse, paying for a horse and training a horse for someone, to a point in time when you give them a theoretically much better horse, or a well fed, fit horse ready for them to spend their free time with. This is why I don't like leasing. It has its benefits for sure and in some situations works out brilliantly, but more times than not, the leasee ends up on the losing side.
    So you really think the owner is without risk here? All training is not the same. It is possible for the lessee to put some detrimental training on a horse also. Remember, that every interaction with a horse you teach it something, and it is not always a good thing. It has benefits on both sides ideally. The lessee gets the benefit of not being tied to ownership and the ultimate responsibility that goes with that. If the lessee chooses to move, she does not have to worry about selling, moving the horse, etc. She is able to give notice and leave.
    I don't know what the terms of the lease are, but perhaps you should revisit them. If you're responsible for the horses care, and perhaps any injuries that are caused during that time, what if she comes out, messes around with him and he gets hurt? Who is responsible? Does the barns insurance cover her considering she is there without your knowledge etc?Normally the barn insurance covers people on the property, and frankly I would think is more likely to cover an owner than a lessee.

    When you lease other things in life, like a house, the leasee has rights. For example landlords must give a certain amount of written notice, they can't just rock up. An agent of a car leasing company couldn't turn up and change your car, it doesn't work that way. While a horse is a living animal, I think that the leasee still should have some protection, considering they are the one forking out the money. She has a contract, just like leasing a house or car. The difference is the lessor doesn't have the added insurance of a "security deposit" like you would have with a house. If the lessee ruins the horse, the owner is left with a problem and the costs to fix it. So, don;t say the lessee is "without rights". Really? Get serious. The owner came to see THEIR horse. THey cut his hair. Big deal. As I said, it will grow back

    I'd have a talk with her, maybe tell her you know she might want to see the horse, but to give her a call so you can meet her out there.
    The owner owes nothing here. JMHO. SHe has not interfered at all with the lessee's use of the horse or the terms of the lease. I would suggest that we are talking about 2 adults. They should be able to communicate. Perhaps the OP would be better served talking to the owner than spending time here whining about a trimmed mane.
    Cat, themacpack, blush and 1 others like this.
         
        03-27-2012, 12:36 PM
      #39
    Weanling
    ^^ AGREED.

    In the end it's not your horse, not your call.
    If my leaser had a problem with the way I dealt with my horse, they would be gone. Leasors are replaceable.
    As my trainer told me when I first started to lease out my guy "Leasing is a privilege, not a right. Your leaser is leasing because they cannot afford to own their own horse, so they play by your rules."

    If I found out my leaser was complaining about something I did with MY horse, they would be gone. Simple as that. I can find somebody else to lease my horse that can respect the fact he is mine.
         
        03-27-2012, 12:44 PM
      #40
    mls
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blush    

    Your leaser is leasing because they cannot afford to own their own horse, so they play by your rules."

    If I found out my leaser was complaining about something I did with MY horse, they would be gone. Simple as that. I can find somebody else to lease my horse that can respect the fact he is mine.
    That is not the only reason people lease. Some do to see if they really want to get into ownership, others don't feel they have 365/24/7 to offer a horse, etc. Leasing can end up being more expensive than owning out right.

    As far as the leasor complaining - it completely depends on how the lease is written and the history. I have a gal leasing from one of my boarders. Boarder is very very VERY absentee. If she decided to start coming around right now, even I would complain after all the gal leasing has done for that horse.

    Not everything is black and white.
         

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