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7 Parelli Games?

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  • James roberts parelli
  • What to do when your horse has more woa than go

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    11-16-2012, 11:59 PM
  #31
Super Moderator
One thing I have noticed is that most of the horses I see doing Parelli are often resistant to going forward. They suck back and often have their ears back in an irritated expression when asked to move out and go!
     
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    11-17-2012, 01:43 AM
  #32
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Val1991    
Sooooo incredibly true. That is why Parelli himself says that true horsemanship is a large part imagination. The seven games are incredible tools, but to simply teach them to a horse does not make a horse a model citizen. The games themselves help you establish a communication with your horse so that when the need arises, you have a simple way of portraying to your horse what you want/need him to do.

But most people don't use them outside of their daily groundwork routine. Then the horse gets bored and sour and switches to auto-pilot and you are no longer engaging the thinking side of their brain which is suppost to be the whole idea. I'm more of a clinton fan myself. But I do highly respect Parelli insight on "horsenality" as it has helped me to gear my lessons much more effectively to the individual horses I have worked with, and taught me how to build a more tender communication and relationship with them, whereas clinton can at times be a bit brash.

Clinton however is super easy to understand, a whole lot cheaper, and offers many more ideas and insight on how to use the things you are teaching your horse. Clinton also teaches a more 100/0% leadership role between human/horse whereas Parelli tends to lean more towards a 51/49% in an attempt to be pals with the horse, which is why I believe alot of people see mean or disrespectful horses as a trend in Parelli followers. I even saw Linda's horse kick and make contact with one of her apprentices while doing groundwork on TV. Thankfully the girl was okay, and I apprecriate their honesty by allowing that incident to air, but Clinton's Mindy wouldn't be caught dead doing that!

I do however tend to move at a slightly slower pace when teaching clinton's methods. I wish that the bond between horse and owner was more emphasised. I want my horse to want to be with me, and not think that every time I show up it means he has to work his rear end off. But not at the expense of respect, and therefore safety. Clinton always has enormous emphasis on safety.

I think that when Parelli principles collide with clinton's, you can get a very nice balance.
Why not combine both Parelli and Clinton's methods? I do follow Clinton's methods because I want a respectful horse but I also play with my horses just to enjoy them and have fun. I don't necessarily follow the seven games but there are lots of ways you can play with your horse other than the games.
     
    11-17-2012, 10:59 AM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
one thing I have noticed is that most of the horses I see doing Parelli are often resistant to going forward. They suck back and often have their ears back in an irritated expression when asked to move out and go!
I agree with this statement to an extent. What I have come to realise is that many many Parelli students have come to Parelli as they have "issues" with their horses and have given up on more traditional methods. Which is also possibly a reason that many think Parelli trained horses have problems. They do, that's often why they are in Parelli :) . It was certainly the case for my wife who originally started the Parelli program as her horse bucked for the first few strides of canter, every time. Traditional trainers she hired mostly said hit him when he bucks. She did not want that sort of relationship with her horse, hence after a long search, Parelli. We do not have any problems with him now of that sort, and very few overall.
Back to the subject. I think Parelli recognises this as the situation and hence in the early days of training a new student a lot of time is spent getting them safe, forwards can come later. The snag is that many then don't progress rapidly enough through the program and so they get stuck in the safety zone of it which promotes horses that don't go forwards so well. Lots of hind quarter disengagement is the culprit.
You have to search for the true nature of the Parelli program a bit, and I was lucky enough to wind up having lessons from James Roberts. As a protégée of Pat's he uses Parelli for his business of colt starting, thus if you watch him you see the Parelli method in its' raw form as done by a professional. His major emphasis is forwards. Forwards in the mind of the horse, not neccessarily the body. Remember the YoYo game says Go = Woa. I have seen him and his staff do many first rides on young colts. The speed of progress is astonishing. Day 1 is accept the human plus some basic yields. Accept a human involves sitting on them the first time. Day 2 is accept the saddle and first ride ! Day 3 is second ride with some more direction from the rider, Day 4 is first hack out. All of this is to promote forwards and more importantly forward thinking.
He is also looking for anything that inhibits forwards. For example he found with Filly (that IS the name of my horse :) ) that just the heavy clasp of the lead rope on the halter was discouraging forwards, so second ride was in a rope hackamore which does not have the heavy clasp dangling in front of the drive line. Whilst I was there I even saw either the first or second ride on a young colt being done brideless as even the rope halter itself was discouraging forwards in motion and thought.
His mantra is that he doesn't care what horsenality the horse starts with, it must be put back in it's stable confident and forward thinking. He'll adjust to fit each inherent horsenality to get them to that happy place.
This is a very long way of saying that actually done properly Parelli most definitely promotes forward thinking in horse, but too many get stuck in early stages of the program where that is not emphasised so much.
If I was to recommend any DVDs to newcomers to the program I would probably recommend the Colt Starting Series above all others. This shows Pat starting a young colt in near real time with explanation for those who don't speak "Parelli". It shows the level 1 and level 2 program being played with level 8 experience and knowledge. That will show the true nature of the program far better than the levels packs and is the next best thing to seeing one of the protégées like James work.
     
    11-17-2012, 11:57 AM
  #34
Foal
Very interesting, Pegasus. I used to be a die-hard parelli student a decade ago. I too had the privilege of working with the best ... David Lichman (who helped gentle my horse and get me started in the very beginning) and Bruce Logan (who helped me colt start my youngsters and otherwise advance me).

What my mentors emphasized the most was having a purpose and moving forward... which in my case was to ride out in the big open space, I.e., trails, foxhunt, backcountry horse camping, etc. In the beginning Lichman made it a goal to get me out of Level 1 ground within 30 days (which included trailer loading) and riding within 90 days (which included cantering). He then told me that while Level 1 is 80% ground and 20% riding, you reverse those numbers in Level 2. He and Bruce felt it was important to spend most (if not all) of my time riding trails. Bruce made clear that one can pass all the original levels without ever stepping foot inside an arena. And as I had very young horses, it was critical their mental development. Things get a lot more interesting for horses if they feel like they are going somewhere and there is a purpose.

Too often you ask parelli students what they do with their horses and their response is simply "I do parelli", not foxhunting, reining, cutting, competitive trail, enduro, etc. This is often where people get stuck. Unfortunately, when parelli revamped his program to turn age-old natural horsemanship techniques into having its own language and tasks, it lost the original ... 'principles, purpose and time are the tools of teaching' concept on a lot of beginners.

When people ask me for an intro to parelli, I suggest they get the National Geographic America's Lost Mustangs video, which to me shows parelli (and his best instructors) at his true finest, and the western horseman book.
Pegasus1 likes this.
     
    11-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #35
Foal
I must try and get a copy of the original levels packs. I've heard they contain a lot of info not in the new ones.
I agree with folks getting stuck. Pat himself says you should be out of level 1 in a month at the most, yet you see loads of folks still in level 1 after years. Personally I have only bothered to take a single levels audition and got online 2++ pre level 3. Since I started with the program I have been working with two young tbs which were not mine and I was not allowed to ride them. (Well I did ride one and broke my hip . My fault, not the horses.) They were thus not ideal levels candidates at the time.
I now own one of them, Filly, and so can crack on with my levels, but my aim is to get to level 4 as soon as possible then continue to train her to work as my saddle horse for backing colts from (hope I'm good enough by then) and some western classes.
James fully backs this plan. His emphasis is on getting out of level 4 asap. Maximum 1 year ( I wish !! ). Level 4 is just the foundation, then you choose a trainer (Parelli or not) to specialise in your chosen activity.
Even Pat emphasises that Parelli is primarily a foundation program and having graduated L4 you should take that knowledge to your speciality. Until recently they did not even have much information on riding with a collection as that is a post foundation subject.
I think a lot of anti-Parelli folks miss this point. They criticise it for not being something it isn't even trying to be, which is a little unfair.
     
    11-17-2012, 01:08 PM
  #36
Foal
If you do not have the book, get that. It is $20 and can be purchased easily online.
     
    11-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #37
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by justicehorse    
If you do not have the book, get that. It is $20 and can be purchased easily online.
I do have the book. I remember trying to read it around 2 years ago, and did not like it at all. Then around 3 months ago I got it off the book shelf and tried again. I found it absorbing and very interesting.
I guess on my first attempt my horsemanship was not good enough to really understand what Pat was trying to say, so thought it out of date and pointless. Second attempt and I had the pre-knowledge necessary to get stuff out that was of relevance to me. I guess in years to come it will mean more and more.
This seems to be a common theme with the teaching materials, the DVDs in particular. When I first started watching them I found them interesting and informative, but not overly so. Then I got to know James. He keeps saying "everything you need to know is in the level 1 to 4 packs, watch them all even if you are only at level 1". I would challenge this "everything I need to know" over some information James had just given me by saying "that's not in the levels James". "Watch them again!" Always the topic has been covered, often as part of a story which I had glossed over in my mind and often as an action, like a particular rein movement, I had missed. The DVDs are like an onion where you can keep peeling back layers of meaning as you progress. The snag is it takes time to keep watching them over and over again
     
    11-17-2012, 08:50 PM
  #38
Foal
If you think that book is tough reading, try True Horsemanship Through Feel by the original master, Bill Dorrance.
     
    11-18-2012, 07:11 PM
  #39
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
Trying to remember which game is which and which horsenalit is which;;; way too much work required and distracts me from what I am actually DOING with the horse.
I fell into this trap a bit until James Roberts said the memorable phrase "Tim, do your thinking at night and your feeling during the day"
He was cautioning me about over analysing when I was playing with a horse. Analysis should be done away from the horse and when with the horse that knowledge is in the back of my mind informing the feel.
I now just sort of "let go" when playing and somehow my body seems to know what to do most of the time. It's a "feeling" that I seek, not an analysis.
I think the reason this really works well is that horses live in the moment and any human thought and analysis is too long for the subsequent action to be effective. This does mean that if things are not going well I stop the session and either take a quiet moment to think then resume, or put the horse away and play another day.
     
    11-18-2012, 11:53 PM
  #40
Weanling
I heard the most ridiculous statement at a tack sale today...I was purchasing a rope halter and lead when a complete stranger felt the need to tell me that they didnt do parelli...that it was stupid and every horse they heard of that was involved with natural horsemanship was mean and rude...then they continued to tell me how they just hop on and go...and if the horse is in a bad mood that day well then too bad for the horse.....I was speachless...lol
     

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