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7 Parelli Games?

This is a discussion on 7 Parelli Games? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Nine step backup parelli
  • Nine step back up

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    11-18-2012, 11:22 PM
  #41
Super Moderator
I realize that most of what Parelli is critiszed for has more to do with his followers than with his actual teachings. But , the sheer fact that he uses "Parelli-speak" makes him seem as if he is trying to promote something old as something HE invented. And, I think , the very reason that people get caught up in the steps themselves , without paying attention to what they are actually doing for the horse . Is the horse getting to be a better horse for waht you want to do? How is the horse backing up? With what kind of mental attitude?
Doesn't matter, just that he go off the wiggle of the finger. They are often blind to the fact that , yes, the horse is backing off the wilggled finger, but he is bored out of his gourd and has no "life" in his actions.

Your own horse , in your audition video, had that same resentful look about her face when you asked her to move, and she was crowding you quite a lot. But you did not have time to address that because you had to complete this and then that step, in order , regardless of the real connection and willingness of how your horse did them. It's a bit of the "cant see the forest for the trees". That's what I see too much and don't like about Parelli.

I NEVER see Pat's horses behve that way, I will admit.
     
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    11-19-2012, 04:22 AM
  #42
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
But , the sheer fact that he uses "Parelli-speak" makes him seem as if he is trying to promote something old as something HE invented.
Not true. He is always reffering back to the old masters and his mentors. One of his favourite phrases is "this is all so old its' new again"
As for my horse being resentful, that was true. In fact it was mostly the expression that the feedback form concentrated on, and something I have been hard to work on since. Thus it is clearly something Parelli address very strongly.
I might also add that she was not my horse then and what I was allowed to do with her was very limited.
Read my whole blog about her and you will see the circumstances I had to deal with. She was a hand reared horse not allowed to go out of the barn for 6 months before I even got to start with her. The first few sessions were mostly about me not getting hurt. You need to look at the whole picture of the horse and human background before you make sweeping statements to back up your case, or risk misrepresenting the truth.
What I look for more than anything else now, before I release the pressure (driving or porcupine), is the expression, not the action. Has she "let loose" to the idea.
I am not saying the Parelli is better than other clinicians, but for me it has a greater wealth of instructional material available, more instructors teaching a consistent program (I'm in the UK) and a large community to add support.
I do look to other clinicians material, like Mark Rashid whose clinic I have attended and loved. Even took up Aikido as a result which actually has helped make me be stronger but softer.
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    11-19-2012, 11:01 AM
  #43
Foal
Tiny Liny, I'm with you on the parelli speak. In the old days, Pat's target audience was experienced horseman and he referred to the friendly game as gentling, porcupine game as fingertip yielding, etc. But when he shifted his target market to include people with little to no horse experience, he created his first educational package and began inventing terms of art to explain his concepts and techniques. But it at least had a lot of substance and the original levels tests required genuine well-rounded skills with practical real life challenging tasks. Then he hired a masterful corporate/marketing consultant with zero horse experience to test his program, which resulted in the big 2004/2005 revamping of his entire program and educational materials, and most of the substance for real life tasks were removed. Now it is about paid club memberships, parelli branded products, and churning out so many dvds with more and more inventive ways to develop the parelli language, it makes your head spin.

With that said, I am a proud original L2 graduate and still keep my blue string attached to my saddle. I also still refer (after 11 years) to the book/original pocket guides and faithfully use the skills I have learned from parelli with my horses, even though I no longer consider myself part of the parelli program.
     
    11-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #44
Foal
You talk about masses of Parelli speak, but really there are only the 7 games that are specific. Looking at the web page I made up incorporating the other fundamentals of Parelli http://plan2plan.vacau.com/Parelli%20Framework.html there are very few words that are not in common usage by other clinicians.
The only major difference is the horsenalities, which as they developed them as a concept I guess there were really no ready to use phrases available. Now I would agree that many folks overuse the horsenality concept, often as an excuse for not being able to achieve a specific goal with their horse. But as a concept they do make reading a horse a whole load easier for newcomers and having read the horse give good suggestions as to how to play with them.
I am however a firm believer in the necessity of reading the horse from second to second to see what frame of mind they are in, not labelling a horse for eternity as those who buy horsenality tee-shirts seem to like to do. Many even introduce themselves as "I am Jo and I have a LBI" or put the horsenality of the horse in their forum signatures. That was most certainly not the intention of the concept, and I understand that even Pat thinks things have gone too far with this idea.
Other than that could you show me in which particular areas there is Parelli speak ? I don't think 7 games and 4 horsenalities are too onerous a job to learn in order to communicate more effectively and in "shorthand".
     
    11-19-2012, 12:03 PM
  #45
Foal
Let's see.... just off the top of my head... there are horse zones 1-5 and the delicate zone, the catching game, pushing passenger exercise, the trotting task, the 9 step back up, the undemanding time exercise...
     
    11-19-2012, 12:16 PM
  #46
Foal
Catching game = Monty Roberts Join up. So Monty has his own "language" ?

Zone 1 = bit in front of halter
Zone 2 = from poll to a line from break of whithers to chest
A rather more succinct way of describing parts of the horse I would suggest.

9 step backup is not exactly complicated. It just points out that there are 9 discrete steps to get a backup from your horse. Not a new language, just a description of what to do. Or would you rather each step was described long hand each time it was done.
I don't think undemanding time is "new" language and I didn't need an explanation the first time I heard it to understand it. How would you describe hanging out with your horse in as few words as possible?
The trotting task ??? Never heard of it. But at a guess, without knowing, I would say it involves trotting ?
     
    11-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #47
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegasus1    
Catching game = Monty Roberts Join up. So Monty has his own "language" ?

Zone 1 = bit in front of halter
Zone 2 = from poll to a line from break of whithers to chest
A rather more succinct way of describing parts of the horse I would suggest.

9 step backup is not exactly complicated. It just points out that there are 9 discrete steps to get a backup from your horse. Not a new language, just a description of what to do. Or would you rather each step was described long hand each time it was done.
I don't think undemanding time is "new" language and I didn't need an explanation the first time I heard it to understand it. How would you describe hanging out with your horse in as few words as possible?
The trotting task ??? Never heard of it. But at a guess, without knowing, I would say it involves trotting ?

NO language is onerous to learn if you have the desire to learn it. I speak English and Spanish and Japanese and a wee bit of French. Now that I am older, it's a lot harder to learn new languages, so maybe that's part of my resistance.

As for describing backing up as having 9 steps (not horse footfall, he means stages), that makes me focus on getting the NINE, not eight or two or six, but NINE, steps IN ORDER. While focussing there, I cannot focus on the horse and how it is or isn't paying attention to me. Working with horses is a feedback loop. If I am mentally thinking about steps and whether or not I am doing things in that order and all, my mind has left the feedback loop and is on some thing that isn't even THERE at the time, a concept .
I need to be THERE, 100% in mind and body.

So, once I learn the 9 steps, I suppose I don't any longer have to do the mental sidetrack to get them available to me to use, but just thinking about needing to keep NINE steps in mind is overwhelming.

And don't forget, there are plenty of times you need to go straight from step 2 to step 8, maybe. If the horse really needs breaking out of it's resistance. But some folks would be dutifully plodding along through each step, because, well, because they are there.
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    11-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #48
Foal
You are so right about the 9 steps. I rarely do all 9 steps physically any more, but it taught me to prepare my body to be in the right position to do the backup. James Roberts had a great phrase "prepare to position to make the transition". The 9 steps does that for the backup, as does the life up and squeeze for the upwards transitions.
I wish I could learn languages like you. I am married to a German and my language skills are basically limited to knowing when I am in trouble and to what depth
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    11-19-2012, 06:09 PM
  #49
Super Moderator
Well, I seem to be in the process of losing the ones I learned, as I forget everything from my friend's names to my own birthdate. Middle age is a thief.

Sorry about the loss of your mentor. How very sad and shocking.
     
    11-20-2012, 05:21 AM
  #50
Foal
Thank-you for your sympathy. It has hit my wife and I hard. We are still coming to terms with it, but we are also determined that we will continue down the path he set out for us. We used to joke James did "No nonsense horsemanship". It was a very progressive and natural style.
To bring this back to the topic of this thread, it was James who really showed me how to use the 7 games to train a horse. It was a revelation to me. He played the games so fast it could be difficult to see which was being played now. This is of course how horses interact. They don't say "lets play the circling game now", they have no knowledge of these categories. The categories were only invented to teach humans what classes of interaction between horses are common and give us baby steps to recognise and play them. Horses mix them all up together in an overall conversation. As James once remarked "if you are playing the circling game with your horse, make sure they don't think they are playing porcupine game on you and winning".
For example if you are playing circling game with your horse and they are travelling with their body slanted with the hindquarters to the inside they could, in their minds, be playing the porcupine game on your personal bubble with their hind quarters. If you don't spot and correct this then they win that game.
James is largely responsible for the knowledge I have which allowed me to write the explanatory post earlier in this thread. I am dedicated to ensuring that the knowledge he passed on to me is never lost, hence the time I spent on that post.
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