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Am I the only one to catch on..

This is a discussion on Am I the only one to catch on.. within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    06-24-2013, 03:01 PM
  #41
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatkrayz    
I'm not saying that you should tolerate bad behavior. I'm just stating that their is always a reason for it. It's not just "random" or "for no reason" like some have stated.

Never said it was no reason. Sometimes it's just nobody's fault.

You've made YOUR decision based on a thread in a forum. I'm not going to volunteer to buy anyone's horse. I know I can't afford, nor want, more than the one I have now. I'm a realistic horse owner.

I have not said the owner should put the horse down. I've made NO decision. I've said I would understand if the owner did. That is not what I would do, but I am not a 60yr old woman.

"A parent being silly enough to buy it...So sell it to the ignorant, and pray they don't get their kid killed? Great philosophy, not all sellers are honest, and not all buyers are born with the decades of experience it takes to recognize the signs."

A little hypocritcal to condem my "philosphy" when you suggested that I go get a horse to flip over on me. I also stated that it would be a "shame" and in no way wish it on anyone.

That was a little quip, to make a point that I believe you have NO idea how dangerous this situation is, and yet you have the audacity to come onto a public forum as a new user with no credible reputation here and say we're all cruel for being realistic. I said that to prove a point, not because I actually want a horse to flip on you. I'm quite surprised you did not catch that.

My original point was that no horse should be condmed for a trait that other's could easily fix. The OP himself stated that this horse could be perfectly fine in the hands of another owner, and that multiple people who actually KNOW the horse are questioning her decision.

How do you know the OP is credible? How do you know you are credible? How can you make a decision like this, without knowing the horse? How dare you accuse us of making a decision, when none of us have done anything but say "Yeah, we understand". Don't put words in our mouths.

Kill all the horses you want, have a blast with it.

Wow, that escalated quickly. You are completely overeacting. Do you feel that no horse, ever, should be put down? Do you feel that a rearer should NEVERbe put down? Please enlighten me...

Oh wow, okay, let me put all my answers in bold in the quote for this one.
     
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    06-24-2013, 03:42 PM
  #42
Foal
Jeeze.


That was a little quip, to make a point that I believe you have NO idea how dangerous this situation is, and yet you have the audacity to come onto a public forum as a new user with no credible reputation here and say we're all cruel for being realistic. I said that to prove a point, not because I actually want a horse to flip on you. I'm quite surprised you did not catch that. -- I have every idea how dangerous it is. Just because it has not happened does not mean I don't empathize. I've also nevr been shot, but I understand the dangers. I have been reared, bucked, kicked, I've had a horse trip and fall, and I have every comprhension of what dangers are involved when a horse flips over. Just because I'm "new" doesn't mean that I lack credibiliy. I've never seen you on this forum either, does that make you less credible?



How do you know the OP is credible? How do you know you are credible? How can you make a decision like this, without knowing the horse? How dare you accuse us of making a decision, when none of us have done anything but say "Yeah, we understand". Don't put words in our mouths. - Asking someone if they know they are credible is silly. I can ask you the same. I'm not making any decision. I have said mutiple times that every other option should be exhuasted before a decision to kill the horse should be made. It should have every chance to redeem itself. Or do you not believe in second chances? I'm sure you've never made a mistake. Take your own advice, and don't put words in my mouth. You have no more information about this animal than I do, and yet you assume that there is no possible way the horse is simply acting out of fear or pain.


Wow, that escalated quickly. You are completely overeacting. Do you feel that no horse, ever, should be put down? Do you feel that a rearer should NEVERbe put down? Please enlighten me... - Of course there are circumstances. Horses suffering or in severe pain should be put down. A habitual rearer? Perhaps. But, as of the OP, this horse is NOT a habitual rearer. It was a one-time occurance.


I'm just surprised to see so little effort among "horse lovers" to at least attempt to stand up for this animal. One occurance, one possible accident, does not mean that a horse should be put down. The situation for this horses actions could be totally explainable, and yet everyone wants to talk about what a dangerous horse this is. He could have been in danger himself, depending on the people that were around him. Maybe people should look at the glass half-full for a moment before they decide that murder is the best option.
     
    06-24-2013, 03:53 PM
  #43
Yearling
Euthanisia does not equal murder.
Statements like that make you lose any credibility that you had, and make you look like a PETA nutjob.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    06-24-2013, 04:01 PM
  #44
Foal
The horse dies, does it not? It's being put down for behavioral reasons that were most likely preventable. If someone can't see that as murder, then I would question their morality.

A doctor who carelessly looses a patient can be sued for murder. Even though the patient didn't feel any pain, it still counts.

This horse is not suffering from pain, in which is is humane is end its life. He simply does not live up to the expectations of his owner, and some have deamed him "dangerous." Which is still questionable.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:02 PM
  #45
Trained
This is going in complete circles.

I have stayed on the same track this entire time. I would not put the horse down, but I would not condemn someone who did as cruel.

You have no provided any credibility for us, most everyone already here knows each other, has met in real life, etc. That's all that's coming into play here.

I've told you already that I make mistakes. You aren't human if you don't. You being snarky at all of us, accusing us of being cruel or not standing up for the horse. That speaks for itself. I already addressed that I have made no decision on this horse several times, yet you continually insist we are wrong. I already made the argument that no decision can be made over a public forum several posts ago. I'm glad we can agree, however I have made NO decision. You have.

As for the horse not being a habitual rearer, how can you be any more certain than the rest of us? You have no more information than we do. Once a horse throws away regard for it's own safety, it will do it again. I have seen a lot of "one time rearers" turn bad fast, when someone cannot deal with them. And who would buy a horse who will flip over? If they can find a home for it, great. If not, and they can't fix it, it's not fair to the horse or the owner to keep him.

There is a lot of effort on this forum. We are all horse lovers, however we will not see someone hurt because of the pretty little pony. We did not say the horse is expendable or worthless. We did not say there was no reason. We said we don't know the circumstances, and examined the options. We never decided on one.

And since there doesn't seem to be enough to grasp on that subject, I'll say it again.

No one, not myself nor anyone else, has made the definite decision regarding this horse.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:07 PM
  #46
Foal
Alrighty.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:12 PM
  #47
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatkrayz    
The complete disregard for the lives of the animals you claim to "love" in this thread disgusts me. And the fact that NO ONE here is willing to admitt that a lot of major horse flaws derive from the flaws of their owners is ridiculous. Horses are trained by PEOPLE, it is us who make them, or break them.

Perhaps some people should take a look in the mirror and realize that their animals are only a reflection of themselves. I never seen a horse flip, rear, or even buck without a reason to do so. No matter how small or silly it may seem to the human eye. Whether is be pain, fear, extra energy, barn sour, buddy sour, or a mare in heat. There is always a reason for a horse to misbehave.

Yes, we love our horses; however, that doesn't mean that we are willing to risk someone getting hurt. The owner of this horse now has a responsiblity of telling any prospective buyers/trainers/handlers that this horse has reared and flipped over no matter the cause. This puts everyone in danger; it doesn't matter if its happened once or ten times. It happened. That's clearly a liability the owner does not want to have. I wouldnt either. She could love the horse immensely, but is that worth putting all those involved in danger? I think not.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #48
Foal
Well, I wish this horse well, and hope that someone takes a chance in letting him survive to reach his full potential. If not, then I respect the owners decsion. While I don't condone or understand it, it is her property. This has been an educational conversation.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #49
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatkrayz    
Well, I wish this horse well, and hope that someone takes a chance in letting him survive to reach his full potential. If not, then I respect the owners decsion. While I don't condone or understand it, it is her property. This has been an educational conversation.
ANd that is just what it is, property, and the difference between humans and animals.

I do not OWN any humans, but I do own horses, and with ownership comes responsibility, and with that comes dammed hard decisions.
Cat, NBEventer, Viranh and 1 others like this.
     
    06-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #50
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatkrayz    
You simply proved my point. The RIDER did not correct the issue, and so she continued to rear.

Also, I said it was usually the rider's fault, not a definite always. Let's not quote incorrectly.

Your solution was to deal with the issue, retrain, and learn to work with the horse. NOT to put it down because of a flaw. That's all I'm stating.
I believe you took the wrong point of my post.

This horse may have had an issue before the lady bought him that did not show up until she owned him.

You expect a 60 year old to retrain him? I was 16 and "invincible," she is not that stupid.
And has been stated, many trainers will not work with a confirmed reared.
     

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