Clinton V.S. Pat - Page 14
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Trainers

Clinton V.S. Pat

This is a discussion on Clinton V.S. Pat within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Spade bit horse
  • Pat parelli on spade bits

Like Tree293Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    01-17-2013, 10:53 AM
  #131
Trained
Yes, I noticed. Light contact, amplified thru a leveraged bit.

If someone yanks hard on a spade bit, of course the horse would be hurt. But you don't use those bits on a green horse.

Nor is riding with contact wrong. But the sort of contact Pat was using in the posted video was not good riding. It wasn't cruel, but it wasn't good either. I might ride kind of like that, but I don't sell DVDs on training horses, either. When I post here on riding, I usually explain I'm not a pro anything but XYZ has worked for me. I finally changed my avatar to make my advice clear. But if that is how Pat rides his best trained horse in exhibition, that isn't a real good sign. Maybe he could borrow my avatar...
smrobs and nrhareiner like this.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    01-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #132
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    




Like this. As you can see, not all that stuff INSIDE the mouth.

I suppose that's what you can call "culture shock"!
Nop not at all. Again there is a DIFFERANCE in how these bits are used. This is the point you are missing. The bit you posted is used with contact. In the wrong hands it can and will do just as much damage as any other bit.
COWCHICK77 likes this.
     
    01-17-2013, 10:59 AM
  #133
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
Then if all you know about this bit and how it is used is by reading one thread on a forum on the net then do not even start judging the bit or its use. These bits have been in use for 100's of years. Again these bits are full bridle bits. If you do not understand what a bridle horse is then go back and educate yourself. It takes YEARS to get there.
I will certainly not educate myself to that stuff!
Our traditional equitation too takes years to be mastered. And I'd rather go on that way.
And I don't want to have my horses taken away from me!

Just to say : Pat Parelli has maid part of his ride what we do in Europe. Maybe you find it out of purpose, I can't give you an advice about that. But that's certainly the reason why, in Europe, it's the only one we know about. With Monty Roberts and his join up.

Because the way he can ride a horse mean something to use. He can do it the same way we do it.
That's what I see when I compare the different video.
     
    01-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #134
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    


View from Europe, that stuff is just inbeleivable. And ABSOLUTELY USELESS.
If you think Pat Parelli is a poor rider because he doesn't use this, That will make him a far better rider than I thaugt in my mind!

NB : I looked at Andrea Fappani's website, and it seems he doesn't use it neither?
You should open your mind so you can understand what is being said.

I think you are seeing a picture of a bit and imagining the rider pulling and jerking a horse into position and or submission. Am I right or wrong?

The spade, like nrha said, is the finally result. The horse is trained, there is NO PULLING on this bit. The chin strap is there to help hold it position, not for leverage purposes. Some will tie the reins to the bit with a couple of strands of mane hair as a test, if the hair is broken, then the reins were pulled rather than used to signal and it is time to take a step back in training. Again it is about preserving the mouth.

One of the biggest misconceptions people have with the spade is when they look at a picture, like the one posted above, they see the spoon and think that it is used to dig into the roof of the mouth to get a response from the horse. When in reality there is nothing on that bit about pain, it is about the horse feeling vibration/signals. The bit designed for the comfort of the horse and we take great care in picking a bit that will fit the horses mouth conformation and really overall conformation. The horse HAS to be comfortable with the bit in order for him to pick it up on his own and be relaxed in it.
smrobs and nrhareiner like this.
     
    01-17-2013, 11:09 AM
  #135
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
I will certainly not educate myself to that stuff!
Our traditional equitation too takes years to be mastered. And I'd rather go on that way.
And I don't want to have my horses taken away from me!

Just to say : Pat Parelli has maid part of his ride what we do in Europe. Maybe you find it out of purpose, I can't give you an advice about that. But that's certainly the reason why, in Europe, it's the only one we know about. With Monty Roberts and his join up.

Because the way he can ride a horse mean something to use. He can do it the same way we do it.
That's what I see when I compare the different video.
If you can not see the differance between the way PP is doing a Reining Spin and the way say Shawn is doing a reining spin then I feel for you. Pat is pulling his horses around the spin with its mouth. The horse is so out of fram for the maneuver that she starts to hop. Again a sign of bad training and bad hands. Take a look at Shawn doing the same maneuver the correct way. There is NO contact on the bit. The horse is up and fluid in the movement. He is crossing over correctly with speed and finesse. What I have shown is compairing apples to apples.

Also Shawn is NOT using a spade bit. Not even quite sure where that came from but oh well.

The point I am making is that PP passes himself and his training DVDs as something they are not. If the master himself can not train a horse to spin properly yet thinks it is correct enough to show off and try and impress people what does that say for him and his training? All he is trying to do is impress people who do not know any better. He did the same thing when he was trying to get into reining. He went to some po dunk show which was not NRHA or NRCHA sactioned and did some reining and reined cow horse with some of his people and place high at the show then played it off with how good he was and how well hid and his students did in reining and cow horse. At the end of the day they pulled these videos b/c he was getting call out for it. When he actually tried NRHA reining he got schooled big time.
     
    01-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #136
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    




Like this. As you can see, not all that stuff INSIDE the mouth.

I suppose that's what you can call "culture shock"!
You are comparing apples to oranges.

You seem pretty concerned about "all that stuff INSIDE the mouth."
With the spade, the spoon and braces distributes the weight of the bit. It is very comfortable for him to hold, again the bit is NOT PULLED ON. He holds it in his mouth and he feels for the vibrations and signals.
nrhareiner likes this.
     
    01-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #137
Trained
Also when you are done showing. Are you required to drop bit to a judge?
     
    01-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #138
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
You are comparing apples to oranges.
I didn't post the video!
     
    01-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #139
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
I will certainly not educate myself to that stuff!
Our traditional equitation too takes years to be mastered. And I'd rather go on that way.
It takes years to master what we do too. I am not sure why you feel that your way is so much superior. I have absolutely no problem with the discipline you ride.
smrobs and nrhareiner like this.
     
    01-17-2013, 11:22 AM
  #140
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
I didn't post the video!
CC is talking about the bits posted.

As to the videos. They are apples to apples. That is why I used them.
     

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clinton Anderson Lexiie Natural Horsemanship 48 05-07-2012 09:44 PM
Clinton Anderson DVD JustPaint Tack and Equipment Classifieds 6 10-18-2010 07:34 PM
clinton anderson dizzynurse Horse Talk 2 08-17-2010 08:06 PM
Clinton Anderson SarahRicoh Natural Horsemanship 20 08-12-2010 06:01 PM
Clinton Anderson hanse004 Horse Training 7 07-27-2007 02:04 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0