Clinton V.S. Pat

Mod Note: This Thread is under heading of Natural Horsemanship and about 2 trainers.

Knock Off the Gun Issues...........

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I saw earlier in the thread someone state that CA studied under PP...sorry, but that is incorrect. Here's is CA' history.

Born and raised in Australia, Clinton grew up with a love of horses. Although he lived in the city with his father, Rob, mother, Cheryl, and sister, Andrea, he looked forward to the weekends he got to spend on his grandparent's farm where his grandmother would give him rides on her old Thoroughbred mare. By the age of 12, he began playing polocrosse and was eventually chosen for a national team representing his state.

When he was 13, he met Gordon McKinlay, a horseman and clinician who would change his life, and ultimately set Clinton on his career path. After attending one of Gordon's clinics where he learned how to do the groundwork and riding exercises that now make up the basis of the Method, Clinton began a two-year apprenticeship with the revered horseman. Under Gordon's expert guidance, Clinton started and trained over 600 horses, many of which were rank brumbies from the Outback.

Apprenticeship with Ian Francis
At age 17, Clinton graduated Gordon's apprenticeship and began working for Ian Francis, a three-time National Cutting Horse Association Futurity Champion and five-time National Reining Horse Association Futurity Champion. While the focus of Gordon's program was on safety for horse and rider and starting colts, Clinton looked to Ian for his ability to get a horse soft and supple and ready to compete on a national level. Clinton worked steadily with Ian for a year and then used his knowledge and expertise to open his own training facility in Rockhampton.

Clinton continued running his training barn and teaching clinics until coming to the United States in 1996 for a brief apprenticeship with Al Dunning, winner of multiple American Quarter Horse Association World Championships. Clinton then returned to Australia and his training horse business where he won the first go and placed third in the 1997 Australian National Reining Horse Association Futurity on his mare Mindy.



So whoever said he came to the states and studied under PP was mistaken, it was under Al Dunning.

The carrot stick is not just a buggy whip with a different name. Whips are thin and flexible, they typically have a lash of some sort at the end, and they are made to sting if you need to crack a horse with them. The carrot stick is thick and quite heavy. The string on the end is made of yacht rope and is fairly thick so it cannot lash or sting a horse. You cannot flick the carrot stick at the horse and "pop" them like you can with a whip. Also the carrot stick doesn't make quite the whizzing or whooshing noise that a whip does when you move it through the air. The carrot stick is not intended to be used like a whip either.

I own carrot sticks, kid sticks (smaller version of the carrot stick), traditional dressage whips of different weights and lengths, a traditional driving whip, and a traditional lunge whip. They are all different with different uses and properties.

To say a carrot stick is the same as a buggy whip is like saying a Corvette and a Chevy 4x4 diesel are the same thing since they both have engines, steering wheels, and tires.......

Some properties may be the same, but other properties are different. There are a thousand different types of toilet paper with different properties, depending on what you prefer. To say one is better than the other is kind of a waste of time. Depends on what you like, and how you use it, as to which brand and style you end up buying.

When you use a traditional whip, it is too easy to lose your patients and "flick" the horse, or "pop" him when he doesn't respond. Or it can be done accidentally as well. A carrot stick is far more difficult to do this with. The weight and size of it, makes it difficult to manuever through the air quick enough to pop the horse with it and sting him. Sure you could abuse a horse with a carrot stick, but under normal applications, the size and weight of it makes it more difficult to be used as a snappy little discipline tool. You tend to use it more as an extention of your arm because it feels more like your arm than a thin little whip does.

That is VERY well put :)
I've also actually tried using the carrot stick like a whip, I mean to see if I can flick it and get it to do the snap (not on horses or when im around any btw).. It is very hard to do, and with it's weight it swings more so it actually has a less harsh affect than a whip. It doesn't even snap half as loud as typical whips

A carrot stick is an exertion of your arm not to whip the horse like clinton does but pat he uses it like it really was his arm

After seeing all this about Clinton & Pat, I really honestly don't see why people say Clinton is great and Pat is terrible... They're both trainers and are good at what they do... Though I prefer pat

lol what ?

i agree besides clinton is so much more famous and has no time for as many people out there I mean he has a TV show that is more than 1/2 about how stuff is made and pat is so much more flexible and does classes as well so that you can get the real experience but clint doesn't. This is just my opinion not trying to offend anyone

Would not give you a plug nickle for either. However at least CA can ride and he is a proven trainer. Where PP can not ride and it not a proven trainer. PP would make a great used car salesman.

They are both well known because they are very good at marketing and selling themselves
That does not essentially mean they are any better than the thousands of other people out there who are just quietly getting on with their job of producing fantastic horses that people can just get on and ride if they are willing to spend the money to get that and not look for something cheap that they convince themselves they will be able to work with and end up needing to go to videos and Youtube to get advice when they are totally out of their depth