Clinton V.S. Pat - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:19 PM
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Clinton was a student of PNH, graduated Level 3, I've heard, before striking out on his own. So, he learned to use the cs under PNH.

From what I've read online, Pat was inspired to come up with the fiberglass stick while riding a certain horse bridleless in a public demo. I have no reason to doubt this story.

Regarding his mentors: I'm sure that neither Dorrance brother innovated the stick, nor used any kind of stick as the usual modus operandi, as Pat does (in Bill's book, True Horsemanship Through Feel, there's one case where he suggests using a stick, but he says to just find one in the woods!) Leslie Desmond, Bill's protege who's carrying his torch, also doesn't use any kind of stick. Pat's other mentors, Ray Hunt & Troy Henry, I also believe didn't normally use any kind of stick. So, I've concluded from these facts that Pat is the cs innovator & those who use fiberglass sticks with removable strings are imitators. Which is fine with me, because I think the cs a really useful tool for many aspects of hms.

The difference between a whip & a cs: the cs is used in both a friendly manner (to stroke the horse, keeping handler at a safe distance if needed) & in a directing manner (contact with horse & "driving", not contacting his body).

The handler should always regard the cs as an extension of his arm, because that's really what it should be (not a whipping tool, which sends a different feel to the horse).

Hope that helps!
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post #22 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern View Post
Clinton was a student of PNH, graduated Level 3, I've heard, before striking out on his own. So, he learned to use the cs under PNH.
That is not where Clinton worked when he first came over. He studied under several top reining trainers.


From what I've read online, Pat was inspired to come up with the fiberglass stick while riding a certain horse bridleless in a public demo. I have no reason to doubt this story.

Ya b/c he has little use of his body when it comes to cueing a horse. He uses the stick to get the horse to change direction.

Regarding his mentors: I'm sure that neither Dorrance brother innovated the stick, nor used any kind of stick as the usual modus operandi, as Pat does (in Bill's book, True Horsemanship Through Feel, there's one case where he suggests using a stick, but he says to just find one in the woods!) Leslie Desmond, Bill's protege who's carrying his torch, also doesn't use any kind of stick. Pat's other mentors, Ray Hunt & Troy Henry, I also believe didn't normally use any kind of stick. So, I've concluded from these facts that Pat is the cs innovator & those who use fiberglass sticks with removable strings are imitators. Which is fine with me, because I think the cs a really useful tool for many aspects of hms.

The difference between a whip & a cs: the cs is used in both a friendly manner (to stroke the horse, keeping handler at a safe distance if needed) & in a directing manner (contact with horse & "driving", not contacting his body).

The handler should always regard the cs as an extension of his arm, because that's really what it should be (not a whipping tool, which sends a different feel to the horse).

Hope that helps!
Again the CS is nothing more then a lunge whipl. Although I do like the fact that the stick part is stiffer then a normal lunge whip. But past that there is very little differance and it works better in some areas and not as well in others.

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post #23 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:29 PM
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We were discussing who thunk up the cs first. I don't think the reiners whom Clinton worked under taught him the cs. :), & I know that PNH did, since it's an intrinsic part of their program.

Last edited by Northern; 12-14-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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post #24 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:31 PM
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We were discussing who thunk up the cs first. I don't think the reiners whom Clinton worked under taught him the cs. :), & I know that PNH did, since it's an intrinsic part of their program.

So just B/C CA uses a stick that is must be a CS and he must have learnd it from PP? Really? You might want to think about that for a min. As PP and CA are not the only trainers who use a stick with a sting to work horses.

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post #25 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SouthernTrailsGA View Post
Craig Cameron did the Extreme Cowboy Race


.
I know, he is the Host, but Didn't one of them actually race? ...Is what I was asking, lol.
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post #26 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
So just B/C CA uses a stick that is must be a CS and he must have learnd it from PP? Really? You might want to think about that for a min. As PP and CA are not the only trainers who use a stick with a sting to work horses.

It's true, but they use the Exact Stick.. Just different colors.
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post #27 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:35 PM
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A painting from 1888:



Probably not made of fiberglass.

The trainer who taught my horses prefers a lasso. I'm too clumsy with a lasso, so I bought a lunge whip. You can also push or rub with a rolled up lasso.
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post #28 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:35 PM
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Take a look at Stacy Westfall stick and string. She has been using that for years. I know she has never worked with either. I know she knows them but she was never a student of either. They all use them. No one person invented it. It is a progression of what works.

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post #29 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, my cousin did a Saddleless, bridleless thing with No thing but 2 plastic sticks.. Kinda like thecarrot stick.. or a blind person's walking stick.. But years before Parelli, lol.. I forgot what that is called..
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post #30 of 221 Old 12-14-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twp View Post
I know, he is the Host, but Didn't one of them actually race? ...Is what I was asking, lol.
Quote:
The Extreme Cowboy Race was originated by the first “Original Extreme Cowboy”, Craig Cameron.


Extreme Cowboy Association


.
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