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This is a discussion on Disrespect within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category

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    04-03-2014, 12:18 PM

Ive got a project mare. She is trained really well but is so disrespectful. When being saddled she leans into the person saddling. When lunging she will push into the lunger. In the roundpen she is perfect but in the arena she pulls crap. I've been keeping her out of my space and I don't let her get away with things but I still feel like I have no respect from her. Any ideas?
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    04-03-2014, 12:52 PM
In what way is she trained really well?
Saskia, Corporal, Palomine and 7 others like this.
    04-03-2014, 01:48 PM
Green Broke
Buy Clinton Anderson's book, and follow it step by step. His system is great for disrespectful horses.

she needs lots of groundwork before you get on her. While not all groundwork translates under saddle, I would say 50% or so does, so getting her out of your space and respectful on the ground will make a big difference.

I too am curious why you call her well trained?
Corporal likes this.
    04-03-2014, 10:23 PM
Push back! Get LOUD! GET BIGGGG! If you have to do it 19 times, she's telling you that you aren't doing nearly enough. Whack the hell out of her when she leans into you. No Way would she do that to a more dominant horse in the pasture. No way should she do it to you. How would that more dominant horse handle this?

P.S. Until you solve this problem, you and those around are in DANGER from this horse. People allow this type of stuff to go WAY TOO FAR and then get someone hurt.
    04-03-2014, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by DanielDauphin    
How would that more dominant horse handle this?
This is a great question!!! And one that more people need to ask when trying to fix these kinds of problems.

You say your horse is great in the round pen? How hard are you pushing him in the round pen?

It really sounds like you aren't setting good boundaries and demanding that you horse follow you rules. Its all about respect.
    04-03-2014, 11:54 PM
Answering that question is what NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP was originally about, before it became a marketing buzzword to sell overpriced halters ...
    04-04-2014, 01:31 PM
I say she is well trained because once she gets over her first 20 minutes of attitude she's a really well broke mare under saddle. It's more getting over this than it is training her under saddle right now.

I actually am working with her using the Clinton Anderson methods. It just kills me how she's so respectful in the roundpen but once she gets into the real world she is a wreck.

In the roundpen it's more about getting her to switch from the more reactive side of her brain to the thinking side. Lots of direction change and working on her learning the commands for the three gaits. I also do a lot of desensitizing and making her catch her breathe with me associating me with rest.

Oh trust me. I do push back and demand respect from her. I NEVER let her walk into my space or lean on me and it always causes a huge fight (which I win) I was not the one who caused these issues. I bought her as a project as I'm just a bit amazed at how persistent the is with these problems. Even when I win in the dominance game I feel like she still doesn't respect me. It's like she says I've won the battle but not the war.
jmike likes this.
    04-04-2014, 01:34 PM
When a horse leans into people they are out of balance (and mares will push into pressure), so move the horse over. When lungeing the horse, the horse must stay between the hand holding the line/caveson, and move away from the whip (point it at the shoulder/move the horse), this is basic handling (but likely you are moving away from the horse instead of visa versa. In a round pen the handler is controlling the situation, out wise not. Will she lead and stop when you do (with you at the shoulder)? If not, why not? If you turn, does she turn? Are you CONSISTENT in what you ask? Basic horsemanship, little need for an over the top action, just clear/consistent actions which must be met with her consistent reactions. If not, ask what you might be missing (in timing/clarity/etc).
Remali likes this.
    04-04-2014, 01:45 PM
She's not leaning into me. She's stepping into my space in order to push me over and cause me to stop. Ill make her move her poll and shoulders over every time she does it and it takes 5 or 6 times before she finally quits every time.

When walking as long as I'm at the barn she will do everything I do and ask on the lead line but when we get to the barn beside ours where the roundpen is she gets ADHD and starts twisting her head to look at things and pushes into me where I always stop her and back her out of my space and make her give me two eyes before I will ask a walk off again.

I've worked with ottbs quite a bit retraining them off the track and they're so sensitive to pressure and I've never had one give me this much trouble is all. I know my cues and handling aren't lacking I'm just having much more resistance from her than I've ever with any other horse
    04-04-2014, 01:55 PM
You REALLY need CA's book.
It all starts from the moment you approach your horse and how they respect you or disrespect you. ANY small disrespect needs to be addressed immmediately and then you establish yourself as head broodmare or head stallion, and your horse becomes submissive, dropping her head, relaxing, etc.
Your mare is showing you she doesn't see you as the leader from the time you halter her. You are just not paying attention to her signals. Here is the link:
Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship: Establishing Respect and Control for English and Western Riders: Clinton Anderson, Ami Hendrickson: 9781570762840: Amazon.com: Books
From the Publisher

Native Australian Clinton Anderson offers his training methodology for “real life” horses and their owners. Beginning by stressing the importance of a fundamental understanding of horse psychology and “why they do what they do,” the author introduces readers to safe and specific ways to approach training or behavioral problems, then guides them through basic groundwork and under–saddle exercises. Throughout, the book features two “real horses” with “real riders” and “real problems,” their experiences with Downunder Horsemanship, and how it improved confidence, established respect, and provided “real solutions” for all involved. Clinton Anderson trains, tours, and conducts clinics across the United States. He stars in a weekly satellite television program called “Downunder Horsemanship TV,” where he works with untrained and “problem” horses. He (WAS) based in Sterling, Illinois.

Now, CA is in Texas. I have an original copy, but it has since been updated.

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