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Feel like I wasted $1300 - vent post

22K views 138 replies 54 participants last post by  wausuaw 
#1 ·
So I have a 4 year old paint/draft mix gelding. I got him in a horse trade when he was 2. Due to my life being crazy he sat untouched in a huge 300 acre pasture until this spring at 4. He was born on the range, handled only to be loaded and taken to me, caught a handful of times (in a chute) as a 2 year old, castrated at 3, then caught a handful of times over his 3 y/o winter by running into a chute, roping, or getting him into a round pen (at which point I could catch him)

I took him to a "reputable" trainer, some hot shot who is certified up the wazoo, has trained in the states, etc etc. and told her everything.. That he sometimes pulls away while being lead, is hard to catch, has tried to jump out of my arena and bust through fences, and has kicked before. I agreed to 1.5 months and on her trainer form I specified that I wanted him started under saddle at a walk, trot, canter , direct reining, moving off pressure, a bit of handling with his feet, etc.

Fast forward 2 months (she gave me half a month free of cost because she self-admittedly didnt do anything with him for 15 days except lead him around because he had a "wall up"...though I still had to pay board at $225/month)... I picked him up last week and have a horse who has been backed a MAX of 5 times and only at a walk, I "need to do more work" with his hind feet, "hates the bit".

He is NOT a mean or untrainable horse. Nervous, yes. I think she was scared of him. Kept calling him a mustang in front of people lol

Admittdely He is a lot less nervous, I did walk up and catch him the other day, and I did pick up his front feet (though I could do that before he left). But when I get on him it's going to be like getting on a first timer colt (and that won't be til I have him used to a brifdle with a bit) Which i was sooo looking forward to NOT doing for once. On the bright side, she did saddle and longe him under saddle a bunch of times and he hasn't bucked yet so that's nice to know. $1300 for that though? Never again will I send a colt away to be started.

Ugh I just have such a bad taste in my mouth. I really did have no other option cause I just moved and have no access to pens, arenas, etc... But it is still really frustrating.
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#2 ·
Muffin.

Sorry, I am sick of people expecting a virtually untouched horse to be dead broke in 6 weeks. Give it 6 months, at least.
$1300? That's a little more than my board for one month. Don't want to pay? Do it yourself.
I hear this over and over and it gets frustrating to me. I know so many people who wont start horses anymore because of people who want the horse finished in a month when it'd just been pulled out of a field. Of course she's only done ground work. That's all the horse is ready for. It takes 6 months to break a horse well, imo. Want it broke quick? Take it to a trainers challenge demo. I bet they'd do it for free too.
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#3 ·
Please don't pick on me, and if you do, do it in a nice way :) I'm just so bothered by this. I'm working a job right now that does NOT make much money (kids, don't follow your dreams if it means you'll be broke forever! Haha) and man... I need a bigger horse trailer, and a saddle to fit my mare... What $1300 could have done! But maybe my expectations were too high??
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#43 ·
Please don't pick on me, and if you do, do it in a nice way :) I'm just so bothered by this. I'm working a job right now that does NOT make much money (kids, don't follow your dreams if it means you'll be broke forever! Haha) and man... I need a bigger horse trailer, and a saddle to fit my mare... What $1300 could have done! But maybe my expectations were too high??
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I nice new saddle is just what you need for a horse that you can't ride. If money were an issue you should spend more time working your horse so it wouldn't take some one so long to finish it.
 
#4 ·
I didn't want finished, at ALL. But I did want a few rides, the horse to accept a bit, y''know? I've started several colts myself and though I'd NEVER consider them broke after that time I'd sure as heck have them going round the arena at a walk and trot and they'd definitely be comfortable with a bit in their mouth. No, he'd never been "worked" with but he was broke to lead which is as much as any colt I've ever started. Maybe I was expecting too much. I just wish she'd told me before, because I'm not sure I would have put this much money into this little return. That's all. I really believed she could do what we agreed to.
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#5 ·
Yes, they were. The horse will take far longer than 6 weeks to be broke, regardless of how much $ you pay. And if some cowboy wants to bronc out the horse in a week for $100 then all the power to him, but the horse will still not be broke.

I get irked because this is the prevailing attitude and it wrecks horses and makes trainers lives not fun. When owners expect a show ready horse in 2 months it is not realistic, but of course the customer is always right...
Not picking on you, just be realistic with your expectations. Should a toddler read at a Grade 4 level in 6 weeks?
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#12 ·
Yes, they were. The horse will take far longer than 6 weeks to be broke, regardless of how much $ you pay. And if some cowboy wants to bronc out the horse in a week for $100 then all the power to him, but the horse will still not be broke.

I get irked because this is the prevailing attitude and it wrecks horses and makes trainers lives not fun. When owners expect a show ready horse in 2 months it is not realistic, but of course the customer is always right...
Not picking on you, just be realistic with your expectations. Should a toddler read at a Grade 4 level in 6 weeks?
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Did the trainer say she could make the horse show ready in 2 months? Did the trainer even agree to the OP's somewhat unrealistic expectations? The trainer should make things more clear from the beginning what is a realistic expectation for the amount of time and money the owner is willing to committ, and not allow the owner to go home thinking they will get a trained horse in such a short time. That way there won't be disappointment at the end of the 2 months.
 
#7 ·
I didn't buy him, I got him and his 1/2 sister in trade. I had planned to start both myself but was too caught up between college and work unfortunately. Then I moved 3000kms from home, sold the filly and kept the colt when he didn't sell. I am boarding and don't have anything except a large pasture to ride in so I opted to send him to a trainer because I feel like need at minimum a round pen to start a colt in.

Trust me, I'd never have considered a trainer otherwise :p

Either way, I plan to hold into him and will put the time in. I'd just expected (and been told by the trainer) that I could expect a bit more
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#8 ·
I guess the part that sticks out here too is that the trainer led the OP to expect more. if they discussed the parameters of what the training would accomplish, why would the trainer sit back and take the horse if they couldnt do what they claimed they would??

If you cant or won't provide the service you agreed upon...dont promise you can and take money as if you did. All Im saying I guess , is dont promise the world if you cant provide the world ...
 
#10 ·
Damn I lost the post I just typed up! (On my silly iPhone too)

Antebel, I would NEVER expect a show ready horse in 2 months. But I HAVE started colts myself who, within 2 months, were comfortably toddling down the trail and around the arena. That's from just halter broke with no prior work besides that. I told her that he would be an all-around horse and I only wanted the basics on him. I ASKED what I could expect in 45 days and she said walk, trot, lope, move off pressure. So I wrote that on the training form and I guess I expected that a pro COULD do that with a fairly nutty 4 year old if *I* could do it with others (albeit calmer colts, which is why I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt the entire time)

I guess I'm just frustrated that I expected something and didn't get it, I still don't have a horse that I can wander down the trail on behind my boyfriend on my mare, or work under saddle in the arena.

Either way, I plan to keep and work with him. In hindsight I guess I should have sold him for $200 or whatever I could get but what's done is done :)
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#13 ·
So she only worked him a month and a half? I agree. Your expectations were way to high.

Did she realize she would only have the horse for 2 months?

Considering the way he was handled: roped, castrated, and turned back out, it is a wonder he did as well as he did. None of those are good experiences. I would assume the lack of human contact made him into "a wild horse".

There is a ten fold difference in working with a horse handled as a foal, or exposed to shows as a weanling, vs one that is thrown out in the field on it's own.

I have a friend who raises warmbloods and she starts their training from day one. Those babies are handled at least 3x weekly and shown as weanlings. It is a huge advantage when it comes to selling them later on!
She has many happy customers- that early exposure is crucial to making a good horse! Those horses are so easy to train!

My last horse was basically a wild 2 yr old. She would let you touch her, but was not halter broke, weaned, or had ever seen a farrier. As a 2 yr old, I treated her much like a weanling. She was definitely "behind" compared to other horses her age (both in growth and mental maturity). It took over a year to get her riding. Not that I was in any rush.

If you don't have the time (or money) to spend on getting this horse trained, you would be better selling and taking a loss, and buying a horse right for you. There are plenty of cheap horses on the market that can do trails. It takes time to train, and if you can't be consistent, you won't make much progress. Do you really want to wait another 6 months or more for a horse you can ride?
 
#15 ·
My initial response is 'you know what happens when you assume'.

I think that if the trainer said she was going to do everything she should have given you a better time line. I don't get on a horse for at least 3 months after I start them. And that's only id the horse is amazing and has had a lot of ground work done before it comes to me. I think the trainer did right by not getting on him until later in the training because she didn't know him and you'd told her he wasn't respectful. If someone dropped off a horse to me that didn't respect fences,had only been handled a few times, and kicked there is no way I would ride him until I'd seen him at his worst and done weeks of ground work with him. So I feel like you've got no right to be angry with what you got back based on what you gave her. She did a lot even backing him with that kind of resume.

That being said, she should have told you what realistically could happen in 2 months based on her work schedule and the horse. But some trainers will nod their heads and completely ignore what you're saying. And licensed up the wazoo trainers usually do that because they don't necessarily need your business or care about your bad review with all their credentials. Just from my own experience.
 
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#16 ·
DW and I took a three year old colt for 90 days training and it was the best money I've spent in a long time.

There are, at least a few trainers, who do what they say they'll do.

We couldn't be more pleased.
 
#17 ·
Many trainers can "break" a horse in 60-90 days. Just look at the mustang challenges. HOWEVER-I will guarantee there will be huge holes in the training in most cases. Should the trainer been more clear about what to expect? Possibly. It is also possible that the OP may have heard what she wanted, or a combination of the 2.....leading to a misunderstanding. A horse that is basically totally unhanded can take 30 days just to throw a saddle over, especially when OP says it is a spooky horse. I am guessing the trainer was taking their time to do it right, as they should. It is much harder to correct a horse broken wrong, after all. And, OP-$1300 is really not much. Sorry. I tend to be with Anebels train of thought on this one.
 
#18 ·
I used to have horses walk, trot and lope circles in less tan 30 days, even when they arrived not halter broke or even handled. They were halter broke by the end of the first day. They were not 'cowboyed' or 'bronced out'. About 1or 2 bucked out of every 50 that I started every year and they usually had someone fail to get them started that tried them before they came to me. I hated seeing 'pets' come to me much worse than unhandled horses.

I think while most training was much too fast 50 years ago, it has slowed down to a snail's pace today. I see people here saying a horse needs weeks or months of ground work. A good, efficient trainer can get everything done on the ground that needs to be done in 2 or 3 days. Taking longer does not make a better trained or better mannered horse -- just one that took longer to do what should have been done in a few days.

A horse should be respectful but not fearful.

A horse should 'yield to pressure' anywhere you touch it and ask it to move away from that touch.

A horse should move forward when asked, move over when asked, move back when asked and stand still when asked.

A horse should be desensitized to a big soft rope everywhere (frequently called 'sacking out') and able to stand tied for saddleing and bridleing.

If a trainer can't get this done in 4 or 5 days, they need to work on their skills (or lack of them) for handling green horses. All this should be done without any panic or huge fight from the horse. You just build one step at a time and release pressure when you get the right response. 'Wild' horses are a lot more attentive and actually learn many things faster than gentle horses.

Once they are OK with saddleing, (always girthed up loosely at first), they stand around all day for a day or two while I do the same thing with other horses and ride the ones that are ready.

I do not know why people now think it should take a lot longer to do the basic handling and gentling. I just takes a confident trainer that knows what they are doing. Everyone else is just learning.
 
#19 · (Edited)
OP, I am with you. You disclosed how he had been handled previously and what you expected to be done for the time he was there. Which was NOT unreasonable! You did the hard part, in my opinion, getting him haltered. You don't need 2 years of ground work to get a horse started and riding! The problem is that most "certified" trainers never have to deal with halter breaking a full grown untouched range horse. Most horses that get sent out to break are the opposite, and mostly come in as pushy and rude.

Someone made a comment about how he was previously handled and it was a wonder the trainer got as much done with him as they did- that has no relevance to amount of time to get him started! We have started a pile of ranch colts the same way, they get gathered and brought into a big roundpen, roped and castrated then turned back out until late winter. Brought back in roped, halter broke and started. See below pictures....he looks pretty traumatized don't he???
 
#22 ·
Sorry, but I'm with the OP on this one. I have been on the other side of the coin, training horses with people who have crazy expectations, so I typically sympathize with the trainer, but not this time.

Firstly, the trainer was told what the horse was like, and still claimed they could get the horse going w/t/c. If the horse was surprisingly crazy, and the trainer was having problems, they should have called the owner in the first few days, and explained that it would take extra time.

secondly, I whole heartedly agree with the person who said training these days was done at a snails pace. It should not take 6 months to get a horse to the point where someone experienced can use it on the trail.

groundwork. good grief. I do groundwork, but even with a super nervous, reactive horse with little-no training and bad experiences with people, it should not take more than 30 days(ever!) to finish the groundwork. and I'm sorry, but walking the horse around for the first 15 days without doing any actual training is absurd.

If there were issues along the way, the trainer should have communicated them better. if they had problems working with a nervous horse with issues, they should never have taken him on, and/or not promised a well started horse.
 
#23 ·
If I was the OP I would be upset! She didn't get 2 months(or 1.5) worth of training. When I started outside colts a few years ago I guaranteed a horse that knew all 3 gaits under saddle, had a great stop, have at least 20 rides, and be used to a bridle/bit....most horses only need a day or two of "ground work"...we have gotten into "babyin" horses too much...just like some folks' kids that are running amuck in restaurants these days...no discipline!!

I am getting sick and tired of some of y'all on here using the word cowboy negatively...I will say this again -- Cowboys NEED a willing PARTNER...therefore, our horses MUST see us as the leader and do what we say; but, we(most) get them that way in a very humane way, not by just jumping on and jabbing them....otherwise, we couldn't be able to control them one-handed on a loose rein....
 
#26 ·
Being a cowboy myself as well as hanging out with cowboys on a daily basis, the very BEST horsemen I know are cowboys. "Cowboying" in my neck of the woods is a badge of honor and respect. In no way shape or form does it imply harsh or negative training methods and if you go to a ranch branding or roundup in most of Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota and North Dakota (this is the area I primarily photograph) you will find some of the best trained, best behaved and best ridden horses anywhere on the planet. These guys rely on these horses for not only their livelihood but their safety and well being and will only accept well trained willing partners. Are there some "bronc busters" out there? Sure. But they are becoming few and far between and no self respecting "Cowboy" that I know would expect to have it take more then 30 days to have a horse ridden let alone 60. Full trained bridle horse? That may take years but they will be on their back within 7 days max in almost every situation.

The horse Tommy started in my last post...he was on her back in 7 days and she never bucked once except when he first saddled her. She got a little jumpy a time or two but mostly it all went smoothly. My brother is also a cowboy, farrier and horse trainer. Cowboy methods are, IMO among the best when done right. Some of the most spoiled and bratty horses I have ever run into have been high level dressage horses who live in a stall 24/7 so that they don't mess their coat. Not to say that all dressage horses are spoiled, I am just saying that there are examples in every discipline and be careful not to categorize.

Cheers!
Les
 
#24 ·
I don't think the OPs requests were out of the ordinary. I have watched my brother who is one of the best natural trainers I have ever seen, take broncy, spoiled hardly touched 2 - 4 year olds and by the end of 60 days they are quiet puppy dogs who can ride nearly anywhere, direct rein, move away from pressure, stand quiet tied and overall be a good citizen. I consider this a well started horse, nowhere near a finished show horse, which in no way is what the OP requested.

One of the horses my bother fixed was a basically untouched 7 year old who had been ridden previously and bucked her owner off when she was started as a 3 year old and then not ridden again until she decided to sell her. She figured she would bring her to my brother for 60 days as she would get more for her if she had some manners. The first day, just to get a starting place for her, he saddled her, got on and she bucked HARD. Rodeo style bucking. He got off and returned her to ground zero. From ground work to handing her back in 60 days she went from a horse that nearly killed herself being tied to a horse that Tommy could lead around the ranch without a lead rope, ride through water and over bridges, ride around barking dogs (she HATED dogs), kids on bicycles etc. She was nowhere near ready for a show and she only knew direct reining but she was well started and a solid citizen.

I don't think 60 days for a well started horse if you are a good competent trainer is out of the question, especially if you work with the horse 5-6 days a week for a couple of hours per day. I would actually rather have an untouched, pasture raised 3 year old than a 7 year old backyard pet that has become aggressive and learned lots of bad habits you have to unlearn like the mare above. Show horses can take years but a good solid horse in 60 days would have no missing holes if the steps are done right by a competent trainer. I am finding not all trainers should be horse starters. It takes a knack to start a horse well and some trainers are better at the more advanced stuff and some are better at the starting, foundation stuff. Just my $.02.

Cheers!
Les
 
#27 ·
I have to say I sort of understand the OP surely the horse could have been sat on. My current project is a three year old. We've had him for four months and already he's walking under saddle. This is from no handling. This also includes ensuring his weight is put on. He can be mounted from the ground and allows himself to be tacked up by one person. Seeing as he doesn't like his ears and he's at least 15 hands it's progress. I'd say from him having tack on its been one month for me to ride him. We even let one of the other people who loan a different pony (this girl is ten) to ride the youngster (with a leader). Seeing as I was in full time education and also participating in shows whilst doing the work with my new horse surely two months for someone whose work was to back the horse can't be too demanding.
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#28 ·
anabel is just telling the truth. JUST GETTING A HORSE SOUNDLY BROKEN IN takes loads and loads of training hours. Just bc anabel shows Dressage doesn't mean she is considering her own specialized training schedule when talking about basic training.
 
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