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Feel like I wasted $1300 - vent post

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        10-18-2013, 11:07 AM
      #121
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SnowCowgirl    
    I screwed up
    It think these words sum it up.

    The trainer gave you a huge red flag of not working with your horse for the first 15 days. I would have brought my horse home THEN. And I wouldn't keep sending the trainer money if I didn't think they were meeting certain expectations. Text messages are NOT a good way to moniter your horse's progress. Every horse is going to progress differently in training, and you often don't know how they are going to progress until you start working with them. I've had some colts that I entered in shows in 30 days, some that were still in the round pen at 30 days, and some that I ended up selling at 30 days because I was sick of dealing with their nasty bucking (there's too many good horses to deal with ill-tempered ones).

    Yes, you got ripped off by your trainer. But you really didn't do much to help yourself from that. Hard lesson learned.

    You've been complaining that you don't have time (nor want to deal with) a green "unbroke" 4-yr-old colt at this point in time. Nothing wrong with that, but instead of sending him for training for $1300 or $1800, why didn't you give him away and buy a 7-yr-old trained trail horse for $1500? (Easy to find right about now, with the way the market is.) Or why did you even take him on a trade in the first place, when you could have gotten cash for whatever it was that you sold? For the end goal you wanted, you really did not set yourself up for success. Again, hard lesson learned.

    And just kinda curious since you've mentioned time and time again throughout this thread about ALL the horses you've trained successfully, and continue to insinuate that you can do better than this trainer did ..... How long has your horse been back, and what have you accomplished in that time frame? Are you going to be able to walk, trot, canter, direct rein, move off pressure, and pick up his feet in 45 days? (Although we know he still can't pick up his feet, because you said the farrier took an hour to do his feet. That is YOUR responsibility to teach; not the poor farrier.)

    Probably not.

    And clearly you are now seeing that your horse isn't going to be an easy one to train, like all the others. Every horse is different.
         
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        10-18-2013, 11:17 AM
      #122
    Green Broke
    ^It was my understanding that OP was not actively visiting the horse while he was in training, and only later found out that he hadn't been worked for the first fifteen days?

    Also, she has mentioned that she got her horses to w/t/c nicely under saddle within forty five. Maybe she just doesn't have the time?


    I'm still so appalled that we are reprimanding the OP as opposed to the trainer. Maybe I'm stuck in the past but, to me, a contract is a contract. If I pay for something, that's what I'll be getting.
         
        10-18-2013, 01:08 PM
      #123
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zexious    

    I'm still so appalled that we are reprimanding the OP as opposed to the trainer. Maybe I'm stuck in the past but, to me, a contract is a contract. If I pay for something, that's what I'll be getting.
    Unfortunately, we live in a society where people aren't always honest. That's why you've got to watch your own back. No, it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

    Yes, a contract is a contract but I doubt it was actually written on paper that the trainer 100% money-back-guaranteed that the horse would do x,y,z at the end of 45 days. We all know that horses are unpredictable and it would be impossible to legally enforce such a contract.

    If you allow yourself to taken advantage of (whether or not you know better), it's just one of life's many lessons. Move on and learn from it.
         
        10-18-2013, 01:18 PM
      #124
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    It think these words sum it up.

    The trainer gave you a huge red flag of not working with your horse for the first 15 days. I would have brought my horse home THEN. And I wouldn't keep sending the trainer money if I didn't think they were meeting certain expectations.
    She did work with him for the first 15 days. There was a 2 week period in the middle where she admitted that she did not.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    You've been complaining that you don't have time (nor want to deal with) a green "unbroke" 4-yr-old colt at this point in time. Nothing wrong with that, but instead of sending him for training for $1300 or $1800, why didn't you give him away and buy a 7-yr-old trained trail horse for $1500? (Easy to find right about now, with the way the market is.) Or why did you even take him on a trade in the first place, when you could have gotten cash for whatever it was that you sold? For the end goal you wanted, you really did not set yourself up for success. Again, hard lesson learned.
    Maybe I'm wrong here, but though I'd never used a trainer before I thought that sending a horse to a trainer was a viable option? No time or location to do it myself, why not pay someone else to do it? Other people do that all the time. I AM in a position now this winter to break him (which I am doing). However, at the beginning of this summer I was not - due to time and location constraints.

    I took him in trade because at that point in my life I was in a position to start him a year later. However, circumstances changed. Yes, I could have sold him. I admit I was a bit attached - what is an unbroken unregistered 4 year old going to go for? Meat. I felt like I owed him something since it's MY circumstances that let him sit untouched until he was four

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    And just kinda curious since you've mentioned time and time again throughout this thread about ALL the horses you've trained successfully, and continue to insinuate that you can do better than this trainer did ..... How long has your horse been back, and what have you accomplished in that time frame? Are you going to be able to walk, trot, canter, direct rein, move off pressure, and pick up his feet in 45 days? (Although we know he still can't pick up his feet, because you said the farrier took an hour to do his feet. That is YOUR responsibility to teach; not the poor farrier.)
    Since he has been back I had to leave for work again, however I did have a month to work him. In the first week he got to where you can easily handle all four of his feet with no problems. My dad trimmed and shoed him before our hunting trip with zero issues, I was very proud of Atlas :) After that first week or so of working with his feet and doing groundwork I took him to the bush.

    After the pack trip (11 days) I only got on him twice before I got sent out of province for work. Those rides were just at a walk. However he is long reining well, giving to the bit, and moving off of hand pressure. NONE of which he was doing when I got him back.

    Like I mentioned, I'm gone now so haven't worked him again but will be starting again once I'm home. Amazingly, I thought I had a "very difficult" horse, but everything went VERY smoothly once I had the time to start working him

    Yes, there is not a doubt in my mind that accomplished more than the lady I paid. I mention the colts that I have started in order to make it clear that I am not a complete noob when it comes to starting horses.

    In the end, it's all good! Lesson learned. I GOT RIPPED OFF. But I shouldn't have trusted her like I did either. Atlas is doing well now and he's quickly becoming my little sweetheart.
         
        10-18-2013, 01:27 PM
      #125
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    Unfortunately, we live in a society where people aren't always honest. That's why you've got to watch your own back. No, it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

    Yes, a contract is a contract but I doubt it was actually written on paper that the trainer 100% money-back-guaranteed that the horse would do x,y,z at the end of 45 days. We all know that horses are unpredictable and it would be impossible to legally enforce such a contract.
    Actually, the expectations WERE written on paper. We did re-hash everything that had been talked about at the time that I was signing the contract and I did write these things down on the paper. But you're right, it would be pretty darn hard to legally do anything about it.

    I'm not sure WHAT I would do differently next time except just plain not ever send a horse to a trainer again unless I know them personally.

    I did speak to several different trainers, asked for recommendations from people, etc. I got a bad feeling from several of the trainers I spoke to. There were a couple who I liked but were booked up. There were a couple who said they needed me to call a day before I stopped over (red flag!). So, I went with Amy because she claimed to have an absolutely open-door policy, told me again and again how honest she is, etc. I got a good feeling even though I don't know anyone who has used her. Her prices were not any lower than any of the other trainers I looked into (price was not an issue when I was researching trainers, I looked at that AFTER)

    I am NOT from Alberta or Saskatchewan (where I was living this summer, and where I wanted to find a trainer) which makes it 10x harder to find someone.

    I absolutely should have stopped in to visit more often. I know that. And excuses are just excuses but I was living 3 hours away (so a total of 6 driving), and I foolishly relied on texts and phone calls for updates. Again, I trusted her too much and she definitely took advantage of that.
         
        10-18-2013, 01:44 PM
      #126
    Green Broke
    I guess I was just raised differently than to say "I got ripped off. Oh well, my fault!" and just leave it at that. I think people should be honest.

    I do understand that horses are unpredictable. But, if things weren't going according to plan, then it is her duty (as a trainer that is being paid, UNDER CONTRACT) to contact the owner and explain that things aren't progressing the way that she would like, and then discuss with the owner the proper course of action. Whether that means some of her money back, an extension of time, or new goals... That would be for them to decide.

    I guess I'm just sick of dishonest people in the industry, and then everyone saying "you should have known better".
         
        10-18-2013, 03:46 PM
      #127
    Green Broke
    OP: The good trainers ARE going to booked out quite in advance. It usually makes me raise my eyebrows if a trainer says they can get them in immediately. The few times I have used a trainer, I called a year ahead of time to get my name on the list and get my horse in when I wanted. But they do good work and they are worth the waiting for.

    I apologize for mis-reading your post, but I guess it would make me even more suspicious with red flags if she stopped working with him in the middle of it all, unless she had made you aware ahead of time that she was going to be gone on vacation or something of that nature (which doesn't sound like the case).

    Did you actually get any references from friends for this Amy lady? Or just looked her up? I know you said you had references for other trainers who had a long wait list. For myself personally, I do a lot of background on a trainer before my horse goes there.

    Zexious: I'm not saying the trainer wasn't crooked. I don't think anyone is saying that. But simply texting back and forth with the trainer is no way to ensure your horse is being taken care of or trained. That's where the OP went wrong and she already knows it. You've got to actually visit your horse on a regular basis. Yes, people are supposed to be honest. But some aren't. Different story if you've used the same trainer for years and know them well; then you may not need to stop in on a regular basis. But using a trainer for the first time? Yes, you need to stop in frequently. And if all you did was text instead and the trainer said "Yeah they are doing great!" well you can't really blame yourself too much for getting taken. It's quite easy to manipulate and lie to someone when you never see them in person. And sometimes you will still be lied to your face. This is not only true in the horse world, but absolutely true in real life. Sad what our society has become, but it is what it is.
         
        10-18-2013, 07:44 PM
      #128
    Foal
    This thread is interesting but absolutely exhausting to read and keep up with. I am truly shocked at how many people have beat up on the OP for things ranging from not taking more time to work with her horse (the amount of time she works with the horse is her choice and dependent on her life and her circumstances, as long as the horse is happy and healthy and being cared for, I don't believe it's a horrible awful thing to leave a youngster in a field with little or no work as long as the owner has a plan for the horse's future, which the OP does) to having unrealistic expectations when she made the choice to invest in a trainer (as many many people have already stated, the OP's expectations were not at all unrealistic), and many other things in between.

    I won't continue to restate opinions that have already been stated here. However, I must say, the thing that really shocks me is how unsupportive and sometimes downright close-minded so many people have been on this thread. In the horse world, I have found that so much can be gained by being open-minded. So much can be lost by being close-minded. There is more than one way to do most things. What one person wants, another person might not want. What one person pays, another person might not need to pay. What one horse needs, another horse might not need. There are so many factors, and it seems like people are forgetting that.

    The OP has kept this horse well-fed and healthy. She realized she wasn't able to give him the time he needed as far as his training is concerned, so she made the choice to invest in a trainer. By doing those things, she is doing leaps and bounds more than most horse owners in the world do! Mistakes were made, but the important thing is that she did right by the horse and the horse is currently making progress and in a good place. WHY can't we focus on that and keep the negativity to a minimum?
         
        10-18-2013, 08:27 PM
      #129
    Weanling
    Thank you :)
         
        10-18-2013, 08:42 PM
      #130
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    OP: The good trainers ARE going to booked out quite in advance. It usually makes me raise my eyebrows if a trainer says they can get them in immediately. The few times I have used a trainer, I called a year ahead of time to get my name on the list and get my horse in when I wanted. But they do good work and they are worth the waiting for.
    No doubt about this! If I EVER do it again, I'd go with someone who does have a waiting list. It's still hard to know though when you're going in blind like me. I live in the Yukon, went to school in southern Alberta, worked this summer in northern Saskatchewan and am now in BC. I never know where I'm going to be a few months down the road. When I found out I was going to SK this summer I was left without a place to start Atlas. It was either sell him or send him to a trainer. I searched forums for recommendations, asked on here, and asked my family in Alberta but basically didn't come up with anything viable. From that point I pretty much had to go with gut feeling. I tried to do background on a couple different trainers but I guess with me being new to the game or SOMETHING I was unable to turn up anything helpful.

    I KNOW I should have stopped in more and I sure as hell would have if there was any way that I possibly could. Phone calls to her reassured me that he was doing well and things were going relatively to plan. Not the case!

    I wasted my money. It's partially my fault that I got ripped off, but it's HER fault that she ripped me off, I don't see how anyone can look at that any other way. I did attempt to contact her after I got him back and NEVER heard back from her. It pisses me off because this chick makes her living off of training and lessons.

    My first clue should have been the one time that I DID stop in to visit and she kept calling him a mustang in front of other people hahahaha. I'd TOLD her that he was a draft/paint mix lol.

    Anyway, it sucks that I had to leave home for work again because I'm going to have to re-start with him when I get back, but it is what it is.

    In other news - one more reason I'm proud of him, he is GUTSY. Nothing on the trail phased him much after the first day, he'd cross anything, climb over anything, and go through anything. He broke a 4" tree off with his pack box and didn't even think twice about it lol, and creek crossings that some of the other horses were jittery about were no big deal - he'd just leap over them (not good to have a pack horse who jumps stuff but oh well hah) When it came to swimming the big river at the beginning and end of the trip I was worried that there was NO way he was going in... but he bailed in like an absolute champ! I just threw the shank over his back and away he went.


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