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Feel like I wasted $1300 - vent post

22K views 138 replies 54 participants last post by  wausuaw 
#1 ·
So I have a 4 year old paint/draft mix gelding. I got him in a horse trade when he was 2. Due to my life being crazy he sat untouched in a huge 300 acre pasture until this spring at 4. He was born on the range, handled only to be loaded and taken to me, caught a handful of times (in a chute) as a 2 year old, castrated at 3, then caught a handful of times over his 3 y/o winter by running into a chute, roping, or getting him into a round pen (at which point I could catch him)

I took him to a "reputable" trainer, some hot shot who is certified up the wazoo, has trained in the states, etc etc. and told her everything.. That he sometimes pulls away while being lead, is hard to catch, has tried to jump out of my arena and bust through fences, and has kicked before. I agreed to 1.5 months and on her trainer form I specified that I wanted him started under saddle at a walk, trot, canter , direct reining, moving off pressure, a bit of handling with his feet, etc.

Fast forward 2 months (she gave me half a month free of cost because she self-admittedly didnt do anything with him for 15 days except lead him around because he had a "wall up"...though I still had to pay board at $225/month)... I picked him up last week and have a horse who has been backed a MAX of 5 times and only at a walk, I "need to do more work" with his hind feet, "hates the bit".

He is NOT a mean or untrainable horse. Nervous, yes. I think she was scared of him. Kept calling him a mustang in front of people lol

Admittdely He is a lot less nervous, I did walk up and catch him the other day, and I did pick up his front feet (though I could do that before he left). But when I get on him it's going to be like getting on a first timer colt (and that won't be til I have him used to a brifdle with a bit) Which i was sooo looking forward to NOT doing for once. On the bright side, she did saddle and longe him under saddle a bunch of times and he hasn't bucked yet so that's nice to know. $1300 for that though? Never again will I send a colt away to be started.

Ugh I just have such a bad taste in my mouth. I really did have no other option cause I just moved and have no access to pens, arenas, etc... But it is still really frustrating.
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#29 ·
Just want to make it clear again that I asked her "what can I expect in 1.5 months", to which she responded "walk, trot, lope under saddle"

I mean, I will be keeping and finishing him now mainly because right now as a VERY green grade gelding he isn't worth the money I've put into him. I'll put the time into him now that I'm in a position to do so. I have never used a trainer before and I believed her when she said what she could do, otherwise I probably would have sold/given him away unbroken and not put that kind of money into what *I* believe is not worth the money (the minimal training I mean)

I just learned a lesson - I will never send a colt away to be started again considering I can do it myself just as well, and save a bunch of money doing so
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#30 ·
You guys need to back the truck up a bit, what if one of you guys said you needed an engine rebuilt, I said sure bring it over it will take me 6 hours and cost 100, then I gave it back with an oil change. Youd be ******. Well thats what this trainer did.
If Snowcowgirl was an expert she wouldnt have been hirign a trainer now would she ? She took the horse to trainer, said I want XYZ done, trainer saids sure pay me $1300. That my friends is fraud. That trainer took her money KNOWING he couldnt accomplish the task at hand. And you guys are all over the OP for being unrealistic in her expectations ? Thats ridiculous. Sure she may have been but she didnt know that. The trainer should have told her that before he took her money. Personally I find that pretty crooked on the trainers part.
 
#31 · (Edited)
That said, I am very happy that he is calmer and that I can catch him now!! So, I take back that u completely WASTED the money because at least I can catch him now! I had just been expecting more the entire time so was pretty taken off guard.

No big deal, I'm not MAD and I would maybe even take lessons or something from this lady in the future, she is very nice. But I just won't send another colt to her, or likely to anyone else. To me, that is too slow with too little gain for that kinda money.
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#32 ·
I suppose it's just a difference in experiences and knowledge/ability. I agree with Cherie and CowChick, what you listed wouldn't be considered "unrealistic" in my barn. It doesn't take 6 months to get a horse that can comfortably w/t/c under saddle and be sane enough to ride around on trails. They sure won't have any sort of finishing work on them and they may not be perfectly "collected", but there is a difference between trained and broke. To get a horse broke, you just teach them the basics and then ride them a few million miles until they are comfortable with whatever you are doing on their back. A trained horse is what you see in the reining or dressage arena. Most average riders don't need or want a horse like that...and couldn't ride it if they had one. They need a horse that they can walk out and catch, put a saddle on, and ride around without being bucked off, bolted with, kicked, run over, etc, etc, etc.

If there was no big issues that came up that she would have had to deal with like bucking, then I see no reason why she couldn't have had him going at 3 gaits and plow reining with a rider in 30 days. Of course, sometimes a particular temperament or an issue pops up that may bring progress to a screeching halt until that issue is resolved, but an average horse? No reason why it couldn't be decently started in 30 days.

Just because someone can get a lot done with a horse in a hurry, I don't know why folks always think that huge holes are being left in their training. Perhaps it's just because that particular person knows how to get the most out of a horse a short time. I often wonder if some people are just jealous that it takes them 6 months or a year to get the results that someone else can get in 30-45 days.
 
#38 ·
I suppose it's just a difference in experiences and knowledge/ability. I agree with Cherie and CowChick, what you listed wouldn't be considered "unrealistic" in my barn. It doesn't take 6 months to get a horse that can comfortably w/t/c under saddle and be sane enough to ride around on trails. They sure won't have any sort of finishing work on them and they may not be perfectly "collected", but there is a difference between trained and broke. To get a horse broke, you just teach them the basics and then ride them a few million miles until they are comfortable with whatever you are doing on their back. A trained horse is what you see in the reining or dressage arena. Most average riders don't need or want a horse like that...and couldn't ride it if they had one. They need a horse that they can walk out and catch, put a saddle on, and ride around without being bucked off, bolted with, kicked, run over, etc, etc, etc.

If there was no big issues that came up that she would have had to deal with like bucking, then I see no reason why she couldn't have had him going at 3 gaits and plow reining with a rider in 30 days. Of course, sometimes a particular temperament or an issue pops up that may bring progress to a screeching halt until that issue is resolved, but an average horse? No reason why it couldn't be decently started in 30 days.

Just because someone can get a lot done with a horse in a hurry, I don't know why folks always think that huge holes are being left in their training. Perhaps it's just because that particular person knows how to get the most out of a horse a short time. I often wonder if some people are just jealous that it takes them 6 months or a year to get the results that someone else can get in 30-45 days.
To the bolded sentence:clap::clap::clap::clap:
(loved the whole post, but that is my favorite)
 
#33 ·
The problem is there is a shortage of good trainers. If you want the horse going well in 30 days than those trainers are probably going to charge a whole lot more, and be booked well in advance.

I can certainly train an untouched horse in 30 days, but there are many trainers who can't. There are many trainers who don't know how to handle an untouched horse from a field/the wild. As for my 2 yr old, she was straight from a field, and needed the time to mature (grew another 6 inches in height! Yikes!). Instead of pushing her, I ponied her on trails, got her groundwork done, and saddled/bridled, and exposed her to shows. Lots to do without ever needing to get on her. Since this was my future show horse (and hopefully my lifetime partner) I was not going to rush.

We still don't know the trainer's side of the story. Maybe the horse had a major snag in it's training. What exactly happened that the trainer didn't touch the horse for 15 days? Seems like something might have gone wrong.

If the owner is disappointed, maybe she should call the trainer and ask why there wasn't more progress? Or if there were any major issues? Very well could be a reason...
 
#34 ·
I agree with those and you SC that agrees he should be doing better with that amount of time.
I have, and I'm no trainer.

Guys, in that amount of time I'd expect the basics, and by basics I mean solid ones.
Like stand for mounting/tacking, gentle, a nice walk, and a calm trot. He should be wore out and responsive, bomb proof, no, but well on his way to green broke. Only 5 rides on him? That's ridiculous.

I too think it's easier to start an unhandled horse than to fix a problem one.
When I sent mine in (for the FIRST TIME EVER) he had huge problems, in just shy of two months my trainer had her 7 year old daughter trail riding him. He was a mess that I was too busy and to busted up to work on, was a puppy when I got him back.

Bummer SC. I'd be ticked too.
 
#35 ·
Ugh I just have such a bad taste in my mouth. I really did have no other option cause I just moved and have no access to pens, arenas, etc... But it is still really frustrating.
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That is outrageous! Every horse I have sent out to be broke to ride, has usually gone for 2-3 months and I've paid $850/month for board and full time training. For that amount of money he better be working at the walk/trot/canter and starting to come on the bit! I would refuse to pay that kind of money for that little work. If you've already paid, I would be asking for a refund.

Shows the importance of doing your homework before sending your horse out to someone.
 
#39 ·
When we send a horse off for training, it's got to be close enough for frequent visits. This isn't always easy. I'm beginning to think we don't pay for a month's training but pay week by week. A good trainer can put a nice wtc and backing up on a horse in 30 days because the horse understands what the trainer is asking. It should only be considered "started".
 
#42 ·
In my area, a trainer that didn't have a horse working fairly well under saddle in that amount of time would not stay in business. Be it right or wrong, people expect results.

When I first sent my horse out to a trainer, she admitted that she didn't work with her for the first two weeks. She kept her two weeks longer and didn't even charge me board for that time. After 30 days of training, I could saddle, mount, and ride the horse. I rode her for a while and then sent her back for another 30 days. If I felt like I could spend the money right now, I'd send her out one more time for some polish work. If I had spent money for 60 days of training, and the horse had not been ridden, I believe that I would try to stop payment on my check.
 
#48 ·
First I'll say sorry if I repeat what someone else already covered (not reading all the post right now).

I won't say what any individual person can or can't get done with a horse in a given period of time, because it's as much about the horse as it is the trainer. Some horse are amazingly easy to get started and others can be exceedingly trying.
Based soley on the information provided the trainer has apparently never worked with an older, unsocialized horse that may well be not too far removed from becoming almost feral.
The trainer should have checked the horse, not just go on what they were told before giving or agreeing to any expectations.
Even a horses that are use to people, stand to be haltered, easy to lead, groomable, etc..., don't always train the same or easily. e.g. my current two mares who are maternal first cousins and fraternal second cousins.
One day to get the older one to let me take her front and rear feet. Younger mare was one (long) day for the front and over 3 weeks for the rear.
And yet after 2 months the younger would lift her feet for me without me asking for them, while the older one has always made me ask.

Took 15 minutes to get the older one stand and be saddled the first time and she accepted me in the saddle the next day. Took a month to get the younger one stand and be saddled.

Yet while the older one is easier to start with everything it's the younger that is the first to great me spend more time near me.

Point is a trainer really needs to consider what the indidual horse is like. What they managed to do in a day with the last 6 horses might take a week with the 7th.

I would not be happy if I was told that I would have rideable horse in 6 weeks for $1300 and didn't have it, but I would suspected a trainer who told me the could deliver that with the horse the OP described
 
#49 ·
And people wonder why no one will train horses....

Sorry but especially after this thread, there is no way in heck I'd ever take on a horse for training, especially not starting one. Because God Forbid if you want to do any ground work with it.
Next colt starter I meet I'm going to hug, because they are the ones that have to put up with this unrealistic crap.
 
#53 ·
the horse should be lunged for 3 months before anyone thinks about sitting on it
goodness, how are people supposed to afford horses? so $650 a month, not including transport, is cheap(on the lower end of the average price here), what should they have paid? guessing $1000 a month? so three months of lunging at $1000 a shot, then I'm assuming you would say at least 3 months under saddle(correct me If I'm wrong) to get them 'started', in this case just well enough that a fairly experienced rider can take them out on the trail. the OP admitted the horse was worth about $200 before training. so that's $6000 to get a horse to the point it would be considered 'started under saddle', in training alone. when you can buy a barely started horse for 1000-1500. that's crazy.
 
#54 ·
goodness, how are people supposed to afford horses? so $650 a month, not including transport, is cheap(on the lower end of the average price here), what should they have paid? guessing $1000 a month? so three months of lunging at $1000 a shot, then I'm assuming you would say at least 3 months under saddle(correct me If I'm wrong) to get them 'started', in this case just well enough that a fairly experienced rider can take them out on the trail. the OP admitted the horse was worth about $200 before training. so that's $6000 to get a horse to the point it would be considered 'started under saddle', in training alone. when you can buy a barely started horse for 1000-1500. that's crazy.
That's horses? They suck all the money out of you, and you can't sell them for peanuts, ahah.

I guess if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

I think people like Anebel and I expect quite a higher level of competency when we start our horses because they are high-functioning performance animals. Like my yearling who has already been to world championships, can ground drive, and knows how to sidepass from the ground. She's also fitted up so she's less likely to hurt herself and more likely to use the correct muscles once ridden. When I get on her next year, it'll be a breeze (I hope).

But if you're interested in taking a free/$200 cheapy horse and putting in some quick cheapy training to make a cheapy trail horse, then that is totally your option and perogative. And like you said, it's probably not worth it to put $6000 worth of training on a $200 horse. It's probably not worth it to put $1300 in it, I would've just left it out in the pasture until I had more time to do it myself.

But there's a difference between buying a $1500 already started horse, and then taking a $20,000 horse and putting in the $6,000 in training.

So I guess, it just depends on who you are and what you want. Personally, I think the training is the most important part and I would invest a lot of money in it with a reputable trainer - which I don't think this one was, but you always have to be very responsible when you send your horses away and never see them.

I think you should look into some wannabe-trainer teenage girls in your area. They love to ride and break horses for pennies, aha. They'll do it all in your backyard too.
 
#55 ·
Around here, if you longed a horse for three months for a client before riding it, you would be out of business before you even started. This is a grade gelding who will never see Grand Prix nuttin' or breed show regionals, training is different. For 60 days training here for $700 to $1000 per month, barring some major problem with the horse, you get halter broke, ground manners, including picking up hooves & farrier work manners, bridling, saddling, mounting and walk, trot and lope. The third month is optional, owner works with horse & trainer and that is $1000 per month minimum, these are what decent trainers charge here. Now if you want to get into something beyond the bare minimum basics, no trainer here will charge you less than $1000 per month and your horse will be with them on & off for about a year.
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#56 ·
Most people I know do the ground work themselves before sending the horses out.
And if it's my horses, I'm doing the work myself, and asking for help from qualified individuals.

Sorry, horses are expensive. I board for more than what OP paid for training.
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#59 ·
Sorry, horses are expensive. I board for more than what OP paid for training.
They don't have to be that expensive. and congratulations on having thousands of dollars a month extra to dump into a hobby. that's great.:?

What I don't get is this stupid mentality, so many have, where if you are not using some crazy high end trainer, and you don't own a world champion quality horse then you must not have a high enough set of standards. what the people with this mentality fail to realize, is ITS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF STANDARDS. I'm not going to buy a Ferrari to drive home on rutted gravel roads every day from work, or do a job with extensive travel. no, I would pick up a moderately priced car that is easy to repair and reasonable to replace, because I don't need any of the capabilities the Ferrari has, and paying for something I would never want or use would be ridiculous.

no one looking for a plain old, nothing fancy type horse that can pack them safely from a-b is going to go out and buy a super expensive, perfectly conformed, well bred show quality horse, nor are they going send it to a trainer that trains high end show horses.
 
#60 ·
I didn't read every post on this thread...but I agree with several points here. Anabel's right, expecting an untouched horse to be broke enough to w/t/c and accept at bit in 6 weeks? Unrealistic. I don't lunge horses for 3 months before I sit on them but expecting any more then what you got is pretty unrealistic. $1300 for 2 months isn't much either for board and a quality trainer starting a horse. Here's where I see the OP's viewpoint.. why the heck did the trainer tell you she could do it? or if she started working with the horse and realize she couldn't, why didn't tell you then? As a trainer I make a point to be very upfront and honest with anyone who brings me a horse. I've turned several people away who had too high expectations. But I've also had some people stay when I told them I'd do what I could do in the time frame they gave me. A few months ago I had someone bring me a pony they wanted me to teach to jump well enough to go to a show. The time they gave me seemed fairly reasonable. But the first week I sat on him I discovered a host of issues that would push that deadline way back. I immediately told them a more realistic time frame and they told me to do what I could do in the time they could afford. He came a little further along then I thought but wasn't ready to show. But because I was upfront and gave them updates, they were very pleased with the outcome. Communication! I don't know why so many trainers don't seem to have it, but it's important for business! Sorry OP that you were disappointed and frustrated. Understandably so, seeing how the trainer told you she could do it and took your money. But.. I think your expectations were too high.
 
#61 ·
i would like to know what anabel's and oh vair oh's "higher level" of horse is??? Because, if y'alls "higher level of horse" has to be longed for 3 months-2years before "training" then I would think y'all are wasting alot of $$$; what does a horse have to do to be at this "higher level" -- you said side pass on the ground -- my roping horse was doing that on the 2nd day of ground work...you said ground drive -- I ground drive mine on the 3rd day and by the 4th day they are doing it in a bit, then on either the 5th or 6th day they are driven in only the bridle....so, again, please explain this "higher level of competency" and why it takes 3 months to attain it in these high $$ horses.
 
#64 ·
Because she's a yearling and can only be worked 5-10 minutes a day.

:/ So yes, she picked up side passing in one day. Then the next week I did it over a pole. The next week I did it without touching her side. The next week I did it without a halter on her. And next year when she is 2, when I can put a saddle on her, I wonder how easy it will be. I've done my share of spurring and spanking young horses into things on the 3rd day of training, no thanks.

The first day my yearling ground drives with the lead rope in a round pen. By the end of the month we're ground driving at three gaits on the trail, no spook... Wow, what a waste of time that is.

Please excuse me while I take my overrated ground-controled horse to upper level shows and not have a single behavioral issue.

And I don't have a lot of money. I don't have enough money to send my horse to a trainer. So to me, I have to have that foundation because I can't afford to pay someone to fix it later. I don't have the courage, money, or the skill to let my horse sit in a pasture for 2 years and then do all the work in 30 days. I won't do it to myself, and I won't do it to her.

I'm glad you can do it all in a week. It took me 6 months to get to a world championship on my own. I must be such a failure as a horse trainer, why can't I get all my training done in a week?
 
#62 · (Edited)
The time frame was not reasonable for what she asked for. People do it all the time. The pics I posted of my husband earlier in the thread, we did exactly that along with about a dozen others that winter. All of those colts went onto working outside gathering cattle and being roped off of in the spring.

The last trainer I worked for we did the same with the up and coming colts that he raised himself, they ran loose for the first 2-2.5 years of there life(although used to seeing people) I halter broke them as two year olds and started them without months of ground/round pen work. Then passed off to the trainer. They won AQHA and NRCHA World titles...hmmm...
 
#65 ·
Just wanted to say - it took the farrier an hour to do his feet today so guess I didn't even get that out of the training.

Shoulda sold him before I moved, this is so frustrating. I don't mind starting colts, but not AFTER they've been to a trainer.

PS: I will NEVER own a 20,000$ horse or put 6k training into a grade horse who I only want to wander down a trail on
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#66 ·
I get where you are coming from. Honestly to me it doesn't matter if your expectations were too high or not....the trainer promised and did not deliver, didnt communicate, and failed on all sorts of levels of good cuzstomer care. She knew the first month if she was gonna have issues and should have spoken up.

And thats the issue, not all the money wars, none of that....she promised, did not provide and took the money. Not cool.

Now, I would put stupid amounts of money into training, because I cant do it myself, and because Im soft hearted like that. But it would be kinda dumb for someone my level to buy a 20k+ horse...Id just be trail riding it like any 500 dollar Craigslist special. the purchase price then, would just be for bragging rights, which is so HS...
 
#67 ·
Also - I'm not sure some of you know how impossibly snobby you sound. This guy will NEVER be a world champ anything, will never make second level dressage at 10 months under saddle. And i dont WANT that. I KNOW a horse can be going under saddle in 1 month because my family has done it for decades. My grandpa raised work horses. They were born on the range and stayed on the range til they were 3, only run in to be halter broke as weanlings and branded. If they made it to 3, they were started and put to work. You think there was any lunging or anything beyond minimal groundwork done?

I own one of those horses still, and she is all I could ever want. World class? Nope, but I'd say that most of the horse world doesn't need world class.

I still think that training was, mostly, a waste of money. Neat to see all the opinions though.
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#71 · (Edited)
I KNOW a horse can be going under saddle in 1 month because my family has done it for decades. My grandpa raised work horses. They were born on the range and stayed on the range til they were 3, only run in to be halter broke as weanlings and branded. If they made it to 3, they were started and put to work. You think there was any lunging or anything beyond minimal groundwork done?
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And that is why it didn't seem like you were expecting too much. You seen it done with results.
People may think that taking a few weeks to halter break and ride an untouched colt within weeks creates holes, but I have seen the opposite be just as bad. I have seen colts that were man handled from birth to starting age be resentful and tired of being handled or not any better off. Of course the personality of the horse, trainer/technique and learning speed is the major factor but reading and dealing with it in the best way possible is the key. (I kind of assumed that went without saying). Some one being handy enough can identify those personalities and issues then figure out the best way to deal with it that makes everyone happy, especially the horse. If the trainer was having those issues and decided she needed more time or was prepared to deal with him, she should of said so. I would have more respect for someone who said that she couldn't handle him rather than make a blind stab in the dark(without owners consent).
If I remember right the OP was in a slight pickle given she was moving for schooling/work and would not have the time or facilities to break him out herself. Rather than letting him set longer, she opted to spend the money to send him out for training. Not to get him show ready but manageable for the facilities and time available to her. She asked for advice on this forum as how to find a suitable trainer for this horse and admitted she had never sent a horse out for breaking. I think she tried to do the right thing by making a go of it instead of letting him suck oxygen and unused, in my opinion.
 
#68 ·
I guess that's why I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt... So many schools of thought when it comes to horses, but since she is a pro I believed she would deliver what she promised.

Oh well. I still love him :) just hope I don't break my neck when I get on him lol
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