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Feel like I wasted $1300 - vent post

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        07-08-2013, 11:11 AM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SnowCowgirl    
    So I have a 4 year old paint/draft mix gelding. I got him in a horse trade when he was 2. Due to my life being crazy he sat untouched in a huge 300 acre pasture until this spring at 4. He was born on the range, handled only to be loaded and taken to me, caught a handful of times (in a chute) as a 2 year old, castrated at 3, then caught a handful of times over his 3 y/o winter by running into a chute, roping, or getting him into a round pen (at which point I could catch him)

    I took him to a "reputable" trainer, some hot shot who is certified up the wazoo, has trained in the states, etc etc. and told her everything.. That he sometimes pulls away while being lead, is hard to catch, has tried to jump out of my arena and bust through fences, and has kicked before. I agreed to 1.5 months and on her trainer form I specified that I wanted him started under saddle at a walk, trot, canter , direct reining, moving off pressure, a bit of handling with his feet, etc.

    Fast forward 2 months (she gave me half a month free of cost because she self-admittedly didnt do anything with him for 15 days except lead him around because he had a "wall up"...though I still had to pay board at $225/month)... I picked him up last week and have a horse who has been backed a MAX of 5 times and only at a walk, I "need to do more work" with his hind feet, "hates the bit".

    He is NOT a mean or untrainable horse. Nervous, yes. I think she was scared of him. Kept calling him a mustang in front of people lol

    Admittdely He is a lot less nervous, I did walk up and catch him the other day, and I did pick up his front feet (though I could do that before he left). But when I get on him it's going to be like getting on a first timer colt (and that won't be til I have him used to a brifdle with a bit) Which I was sooo looking forward to NOT doing for once. On the bright side, she did saddle and longe him under saddle a bunch of times and he hasn't bucked yet so that's nice to know. $1300 for that though? Never again will I send a colt away to be started.

    Ugh I just have such a bad taste in my mouth. I really did have no other option cause I just moved and have no access to pens, arenas, etc... But it is still really frustrating.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    For $1300, I think she did exactly what he needed. I wouldn't have accepted an untouched 4 year old with those unrealistic expectations listed on the form. There's no way on earth in 1.5 or 2 months that the horse would be doing all that. 6 months, maybe.....
         
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        07-08-2013, 11:16 AM
      #22
    Started
    Sorry, but I'm with the OP on this one. I have been on the other side of the coin, training horses with people who have crazy expectations, so I typically sympathize with the trainer, but not this time.

    Firstly, the trainer was told what the horse was like, and still claimed they could get the horse going w/t/c. If the horse was surprisingly crazy, and the trainer was having problems, they should have called the owner in the first few days, and explained that it would take extra time.

    Secondly, I whole heartedly agree with the person who said training these days was done at a snails pace. It should not take 6 months to get a horse to the point where someone experienced can use it on the trail.

    Groundwork. Good grief. I do groundwork, but even with a super nervous, reactive horse with little-no training and bad experiences with people, it should not take more than 30 days(ever!) to finish the groundwork. And I'm sorry, but walking the horse around for the first 15 days without doing any actual training is absurd.

    If there were issues along the way, the trainer should have communicated them better. If they had problems working with a nervous horse with issues, they should never have taken him on, and/or not promised a well started horse.
         
        07-08-2013, 11:17 AM
      #23
    Foal
    If I was the OP I would be upset! She didn't get 2 months(or 1.5) worth of training. When I started outside colts a few years ago I guaranteed a horse that knew all 3 gaits under saddle, had a great stop, have at least 20 rides, and be used to a bridle/bit....most horses only need a day or two of "ground work"...we have gotten into "babyin" horses too much...just like some folks' kids that are running amuck in restaurants these days...no discipline!!

    I am getting sick and tired of some of y'all on here using the word cowboy negatively...I will say this again -- Cowboys NEED a willing PARTNER...therefore, our horses MUST see us as the leader and do what we say; but, we(most) get them that way in a very humane way, not by just jumping on and jabbing them....otherwise, we couldn't be able to control them one-handed on a loose rein....
         
        07-08-2013, 11:28 AM
      #24
    Foal
    I don't think the OPs requests were out of the ordinary. I have watched my brother who is one of the best natural trainers I have ever seen, take broncy, spoiled hardly touched 2 - 4 year olds and by the end of 60 days they are quiet puppy dogs who can ride nearly anywhere, direct rein, move away from pressure, stand quiet tied and overall be a good citizen. I consider this a well started horse, nowhere near a finished show horse, which in no way is what the OP requested.

    One of the horses my bother fixed was a basically untouched 7 year old who had been ridden previously and bucked her owner off when she was started as a 3 year old and then not ridden again until she decided to sell her. She figured she would bring her to my brother for 60 days as she would get more for her if she had some manners. The first day, just to get a starting place for her, he saddled her, got on and she bucked HARD. Rodeo style bucking. He got off and returned her to ground zero. From ground work to handing her back in 60 days she went from a horse that nearly killed herself being tied to a horse that Tommy could lead around the ranch without a lead rope, ride through water and over bridges, ride around barking dogs (she HATED dogs), kids on bicycles etc. She was nowhere near ready for a show and she only knew direct reining but she was well started and a solid citizen.

    I don't think 60 days for a well started horse if you are a good competent trainer is out of the question, especially if you work with the horse 5-6 days a week for a couple of hours per day. I would actually rather have an untouched, pasture raised 3 year old than a 7 year old backyard pet that has become aggressive and learned lots of bad habits you have to unlearn like the mare above. Show horses can take years but a good solid horse in 60 days would have no missing holes if the steps are done right by a competent trainer. I am finding not all trainers should be horse starters. It takes a knack to start a horse well and some trainers are better at the more advanced stuff and some are better at the starting, foundation stuff. Just my $.02.

    Cheers!
    Les
         
        07-08-2013, 11:41 AM
      #25
    Foal
    Also, around here, most good trainers charge $600-800 for the first 30 days - you will get a rideable/safe horse that knows all 3 gaits under saddle and that will accept the bridle well....rates vary after the first 30 days, some stay the same, some take a $100 or so off after the first 30 days.
    xXSweetBreezeXx and Celeste like this.
         
        07-08-2013, 11:46 AM
      #26
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ropinbiker    
    If I was the OP I would be upset! She didn't get 2 months(or 1.5) worth of training. When I started outside colts a few years ago I guaranteed a horse that knew all 3 gaits under saddle, had a great stop, have at least 20 rides, and be used to a bridle/bit....most horses only need a day or two of "ground work"...we have gotten into "babyin" horses too much...just like some folks' kids that are running amuck in restaurants these days...no discipline!!

    I am getting sick and tired of some of y'all on here using the word cowboy negatively...I will say this again -- Cowboys NEED a willing PARTNER...therefore, our horses MUST see us as the leader and do what we say; but, we(most) get them that way in a very humane way, not by just jumping on and jabbing them....otherwise, we couldn't be able to control them one-handed on a loose rein....
    Being a cowboy myself as well as hanging out with cowboys on a daily basis, the very BEST horsemen I know are cowboys. "Cowboying" in my neck of the woods is a badge of honor and respect. In no way shape or form does it imply harsh or negative training methods and if you go to a ranch branding or roundup in most of Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota and North Dakota (this is the area I primarily photograph) you will find some of the best trained, best behaved and best ridden horses anywhere on the planet. These guys rely on these horses for not only their livelihood but their safety and well being and will only accept well trained willing partners. Are there some "bronc busters" out there? Sure. But they are becoming few and far between and no self respecting "Cowboy" that I know would expect to have it take more then 30 days to have a horse ridden let alone 60. Full trained bridle horse? That may take years but they will be on their back within 7 days max in almost every situation.

    The horse Tommy started in my last post...he was on her back in 7 days and she never bucked once except when he first saddled her. She got a little jumpy a time or two but mostly it all went smoothly. My brother is also a cowboy, farrier and horse trainer. Cowboy methods are, IMO among the best when done right. Some of the most spoiled and bratty horses I have ever run into have been high level dressage horses who live in a stall 24/7 so that they don't mess their coat. Not to say that all dressage horses are spoiled, I am just saying that there are examples in every discipline and be careful not to categorize.

    Cheers!
    Les
         
        07-08-2013, 12:41 PM
      #27
    Foal
    I have to say I sort of understand the OP surely the horse could have been sat on. My current project is a three year old. We've had him for four months and already he's walking under saddle. This is from no handling. This also includes ensuring his weight is put on. He can be mounted from the ground and allows himself to be tacked up by one person. Seeing as he doesn't like his ears and he's at least 15 hands it's progress. I'd say from him having tack on its been one month for me to ride him. We even let one of the other people who loan a different pony (this girl is ten) to ride the youngster (with a leader). Seeing as I was in full time education and also participating in shows whilst doing the work with my new horse surely two months for someone whose work was to back the horse can't be too demanding.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        07-08-2013, 01:05 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Anabel is just telling the truth. JUST GETTING A HORSE SOUNDLY BROKEN IN takes loads and loads of training hours. Just bc anabel shows Dressage doesn't mean she is considering her own specialized training schedule when talking about basic training.
         
        07-08-2013, 01:30 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Just want to make it clear again that I asked her "what can I expect in 1.5 months", to which she responded "walk, trot, lope under saddle"

    I mean, I will be keeping and finishing him now mainly because right now as a VERY green grade gelding he isn't worth the money I've put into him. I'll put the time into him now that I'm in a position to do so. I have never used a trainer before and I believed her when she said what she could do, otherwise I probably would have sold/given him away unbroken and not put that kind of money into what *I* believe is not worth the money (the minimal training I mean)

    I just learned a lesson - I will never send a colt away to be started again considering I can do it myself just as well, and save a bunch of money doing so
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        07-08-2013, 01:38 PM
      #30
    Green Broke
    You guys need to back the truck up a bit, what if one of you guys said you needed an engine rebuilt, I said sure bring it over it will take me 6 hours and cost 100, then I gave it back with an oil change. Youd be pissed. Well that's what this trainer did.
    If Snowcowgirl was an expert she wouldnt have been hirign a trainer now would she ? She took the horse to trainer, said I want XYZ done, trainer saids sure pay me $1300. That my friends is fraud. That trainer took her money KNOWING he couldnt accomplish the task at hand. And you guys are all over the OP for being unrealistic in her expectations ? That's ridiculous. Sure she may have been but she didnt know that. The trainer should have told her that before he took her money. Personally I find that pretty crooked on the trainers part.
         

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