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Feel like I wasted $1300 - vent post

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        07-09-2013, 04:28 PM
      #61
    Foal
    I would like to know what anabel's and oh vair oh's "higher level" of horse is??? Because, if y'alls "higher level of horse" has to be longed for 3 months-2years before "training" then I would think y'all are wasting alot of $$$; what does a horse have to do to be at this "higher level" -- you said side pass on the ground -- my roping horse was doing that on the 2nd day of ground work...you said ground drive -- I ground drive mine on the 3rd day and by the 4th day they are doing it in a bit, then on either the 5th or 6th day they are driven in only the bridle....so, again, please explain this "higher level of competency" and why it takes 3 months to attain it in these high $$ horses.
         
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        07-09-2013, 04:59 PM
      #62
    Green Broke
    The time frame was not reasonable for what she asked for. People do it all the time. The pics I posted of my husband earlier in the thread, we did exactly that along with about a dozen others that winter. All of those colts went onto working outside gathering cattle and being roped off of in the spring.

    The last trainer I worked for we did the same with the up and coming colts that he raised himself, they ran loose for the first 2-2.5 years of there life(although used to seeing people) I halter broke them as two year olds and started them without months of ground/round pen work. Then passed off to the trainer. They won AQHA and NRCHA World titles...hmmm...
    smrobs, Cherie, Celeste and 4 others like this.
         
        07-09-2013, 05:09 PM
      #63
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe4d    
    You guys need to back the truck up a bit, what if one of you guys said you needed an engine rebuilt, I said sure bring it over it will take me 6 hours and cost 100, then I gave it back with an oil change. Youd be pissed. Well that's what this trainer did.
    If Snowcowgirl was an expert she wouldnt have been hirign a trainer now would she ? She took the horse to trainer, said I want XYZ done, trainer saids sure pay me $1300. That my friends is fraud. That trainer took her money KNOWING he couldnt accomplish the task at hand. And you guys are all over the OP for being unrealistic in her expectations ? That's ridiculous. Sure she may have been but she didnt know that. The trainer should have told her that before he took her money. Personally I find that pretty crooked on the trainers part.
    I agree. In our neck of the woods, you do what you say or you give the $$s back.
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        07-09-2013, 05:50 PM
      #64
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ropinbiker    
    i would like to know what anabel's and oh vair oh's "higher level" of horse is??? Because, if y'alls "higher level of horse" has to be longed for 3 months-2years before "training" then I would think y'all are wasting alot of $$$; what does a horse have to do to be at this "higher level" -- you said side pass on the ground -- my roping horse was doing that on the 2nd day of ground work...you said ground drive -- I ground drive mine on the 3rd day and by the 4th day they are doing it in a bit, then on either the 5th or 6th day they are driven in only the bridle....so, again, please explain this "higher level of competency" and why it takes 3 months to attain it in these high $$ horses.
    Because she's a yearling and can only be worked 5-10 minutes a day.

    :/ So yes, she picked up side passing in one day. Then the next week I did it over a pole. The next week I did it without touching her side. The next week I did it without a halter on her. And next year when she is 2, when I can put a saddle on her, I wonder how easy it will be. I've done my share of spurring and spanking young horses into things on the 3rd day of training, no thanks.

    The first day my yearling ground drives with the lead rope in a round pen. By the end of the month we're ground driving at three gaits on the trail, no spook... Wow, what a waste of time that is.

    Please excuse me while I take my overrated ground-controled horse to upper level shows and not have a single behavioral issue.

    And I don't have a lot of money. I don't have enough money to send my horse to a trainer. So to me, I have to have that foundation because I can't afford to pay someone to fix it later. I don't have the courage, money, or the skill to let my horse sit in a pasture for 2 years and then do all the work in 30 days. I won't do it to myself, and I won't do it to her.

    I'm glad you can do it all in a week. It took me 6 months to get to a world championship on my own. I must be such a failure as a horse trainer, why can't I get all my training done in a week?
         
        07-09-2013, 05:55 PM
      #65
    Weanling
    Just wanted to say - it took the farrier an hour to do his feet today so guess I didn't even get that out of the training.

    Shoulda sold him before I moved, this is so frustrating. I don't mind starting colts, but not AFTER they've been to a trainer.

    PS: I will NEVER own a 20,000$ horse or put 6k training into a grade horse who I only want to wander down a trail on
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        07-09-2013, 06:11 PM
      #66
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SnowCowgirl    
    Just wanted to say - it took the farrier an hour to do his feet today so guess I didn't even get that out of the training.

    Shoulda sold him before I moved, this is so frustrating. I don't mind starting colts, but not AFTER they've been to a trainer.

    PS: I will NEVER own a 20,000$ horse or put 6k training into a grade horse who I only want to wander down a trail on
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I get where you are coming from. Honestly to me it doesn't matter if your expectations were too high or not....the trainer promised and did not deliver, didnt communicate, and failed on all sorts of levels of good cuzstomer care. She knew the first month if she was going to have issues and should have spoken up.

    And that's the issue, not all the money wars, none of that....she promised, did not provide and took the money. Not cool.

    Now, I would put stupid amounts of money into training, because I can't do it myself, and because Im soft hearted like that. But it would be kinda dumb for someone my level to buy a 20k+ horse...Id just be trail riding it like any 500 dollar Craigslist special. The purchase price then, would just be for bragging rights, which is so HS...
    xXSweetBreezeXx likes this.
         
        07-09-2013, 06:34 PM
      #67
    Weanling
    Also - I'm not sure some of you know how impossibly snobby you sound. This guy will NEVER be a world champ anything, will never make second level dressage at 10 months under saddle. And I don't WANT that. I KNOW a horse can be going under saddle in 1 month because my family has done it for decades. My grandpa raised work horses. They were born on the range and stayed on the range til they were 3, only run in to be halter broke as weanlings and branded. If they made it to 3, they were started and put to work. You think there was any lunging or anything beyond minimal groundwork done?

    I own one of those horses still, and she is all I could ever want. World class? Nope, but I'd say that most of the horse world doesn't need world class.

    I still think that training was, mostly, a waste of money. Neat to see all the opinions though.
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    smrobs, COWCHICK77, Cherie and 5 others like this.
         
        07-09-2013, 06:47 PM
      #68
    Weanling
    I guess that's why I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt... So many schools of thought when it comes to horses, but since she is a pro I believed she would deliver what she promised.

    Oh well. I still love him :) just hope I don't break my neck when I get on him lol
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        07-09-2013, 08:37 PM
      #69
    Super Moderator
    Two years of ground work?

    First of all, I don't lunge horses for more than a couple of days, and only if they are old enough to back. Senseless lunging is very hard on a young horse's leg joints.

    I ground drive.
    This teaches a horse to bend, balance and accept the bit in ways lunging never can. Lunging is just useless calories being burned, IMHO. I ground drive at walk, trot and canter.

    If a horse is just green, and hasn't come to me with real issues that need to be undone, I will often get on their back in a week or two. The real training begins there. Once on their back, I will proceed at the HORSE'S learning pace and immediately slow whenever I hit an issue. It is not beyond reason to have a horse W/T/C within a couple of months. Show worthy? Of course not!! Beginner worthy? Again, no. Worthy of a decent rider getting on, in a ring? Probably.

    I don't train like every horse should come out of a cookie cutter. Each progresses at their own pace.


    I was tasked with putting the below horse under saddle. He was fearful and reactive and the owner (an ADVANCED level eventer) was afraid to try to put him under saddle. The first time I put a surcingle on him he reared up and almost flipped over from feeling the belly band.

    However, he and I came to a partnership so quickly, with quiet patience, that I allowed him to progress at his own pace. He was fabulously talented and learned quickly, once he trusted you.

    Six weeks after having a saddle on him for the first time, he went into his first event at beginner novice. He won it. He loved it all.



    It can be done, depending on the HORSE.
         
        07-09-2013, 09:03 PM
      #70
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    Two years of ground work?

    First of all, I don't lunge horses for more than a couple of days, and only if they are old enough to back. Senseless lunging is very hard on a young horse's leg joints.

    I ground drive.
    This teaches a horse to bend, balance and accept the bit in ways lunging never can. Lunging is just useless calories being burned, IMHO. I ground drive at walk, trot and canter.
    Two years - birth through starting at 2 years old. Sorry to not clarify. Not everyone needs a "minimum requirement" of 2 years of groundwork. There is just a lot that an untouched horse needs to learn, and I think it is better to do it over the course of those 2 years rather than all in the last 30 days. What is starting a horse from nothing? - Ground control, bathing, trailering, farrier work, medicating/worming, sacking out, driving, exposing them either to shows/trails, desensitizing, tying. Regardless of the price of your horse or what you want to do with it, you still need all those basic things before you even get on.

    Then there's the idea of fitness. No, I don't agree with senseless longing. My yearling longes, but that is just her final step. She is fitted by ground driving through the trails. Not only does it give her exposure, but also puts her through her cues. She is a sound and happy trail horse and loves it. She is also a show horse. Having control of your horse when you expose them to new things is important regardless of who or what you are. I just cannot imagine trying to cram all this information in 30 days, plus getting on them and riding them. Of course, a great trainer and a great horse can do anything! But a lot of trainers aren't great, and not all horses are either.

    I also think a horse should be physically fit enough to carry themselves and a rider. Pull a horse out of the pasture - he's probably out of shape even to carry himself properly unless he's very well bred. It takes time to build fitness so a horse can carry a rider without the potential for injury, or bad habits such as inversion out of pain.

    Any horse and rider combination can benefit from a relationship with a trainer. Not just a onesy-twosy relationship, but one where you actively communicate your goals and hopes. You don't have to be in training full time, but training doesn't end after 30 days no matter who you are, and it's always good to have someone on your side to take lessons with or to ask for help. I can't afford lessons or training, but I have many friends who I can go to when I need help.

    And I treat all my horses like stars, I have both Minivans and Ferraris in my barn. That doesn't mean the Minivans don't get their oil changed regularly and are driven like crazy just because they are a cheap car. They get maintained like the Ferraris. Regardless of what your horse does or what your horse is, all horses benefit from good training. It adds value if you put it in. Selling a green broke horse is hard. Selling a pasture puff is even harder.

    Sorry if I've come off as a snob.
         

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