Holy big bits! - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 10:11 AM
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omg that guy should not be a trainer O_O. if a trainer EVER did that to my horse, there would be problems! And I am not sure how he is teaching softness. putting the head down doesn't mean soft or collected. ick.

my best friend is my arabian. People always tell me that he's the calmest horse they've ever seen. i tell them he's an arabian. and they are surprised :)
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post #32 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 10:27 AM
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I struggle with the idea of them because they're alien to me - from a British background where these sort of bits have no place though different things are always drifting in but they do tend to be more of a band aid for bad riding and bad training than the purpose these ones are designed for
Used correctly by experienced riders for refinement they aren't a problem, its when people that don't have the experience get their heavy handed paws on them that it worries me
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post #33 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 11:12 AM
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I struggle with the idea of them because they're alien to me - from a British background where these sort of bits have no place though different things are always drifting in but they do tend to be more of a band aid for bad riding and bad training than the purpose these ones are designed for
Used correctly by experienced riders for refinement they aren't a problem, its when people that don't have the experience get their heavy handed paws on them that it worries me

LOL, they are foreign to me as well, and I'm still laughing at my discovery, Big Ben, my English horse, not long started and going happily in a snaffle, he will only need a 'bigger bit' on the unlikely event that we reach a higher level of dressage, and then he will need a double. I have though got a pelham in his size in the tack room, and if I suddenly find that we have a brake failure I will have no hesitation in pulling it out and using it, for those exciting situations like cross country and jumping (chances of him ever doing those things slim to none but still)

Emmy will have to go into a curb to show Western, so I'm working at getting her as soft as possible, because I don't want to have to engage the leverage action as brakes, just as a way of allowing my cues to be very subtle.
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post #34 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 04:21 PM
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A lot of people don't realize how distructive a simple snaffle bit can be and judging by that video neither does this yahoo. I think if this guy did this to my horse he would have found him self with a fat lip, on his back and kicking in the sand. It's that you pop my horse in the mouth I pop you in the mouth sort of thing. I've never heard of him but I think I'll never look into him again past this thread.

That being said i have no problem with a cathedral or spade in the hands of someone knows the deal and if the horse has been prepared.

The spade bit is NOT , NOT , NOT a leverage bit. i repeat NOT a leverage bit. It is a SIGNAL bit and should be used as only a signal bit.

What do i mean as a signal bit? here is a little run down of how they work , as I understand it.( I am NO expert) Just a student on the path to enlightenment, and along way from it.

The spade has a spoon, roller or cricket, braces, and a cannon bar( or the cross peice. The horse learns to pick this whole thing up and hold the bit with its tongue. The cricket or roller is designed for the horse to roll with his tongue which inturn keeps the horse from bracing on the bit and soft in the jaw and inturn inthe poll. It's physically impossible to be clinched in those places when they are rolling there tongue around on the cricket. The spoon is balance to hold a neutral position in the mouth. If the horse raises his head and "roots" his nose out the spoon will raise off the tongue and rest on the roof off the mouth. if the horse drops past vertical the spoon will rest on the tongue. This allows the horse to find that "sweet" spot of release to carry his head.( Now this sweet spot should have already been worked on in the hackamore stage.) Now the signal comes in as your riding the horse is holding the bit and and you get ready to ask for something yo lift the spoon to tell the horse" hey I'm going to ask you to do something". Then your body takes over with your legs and seat. the two rein will be used to get to this point before the horse is ever even thought to be straight up in the bridle. Which is to say the horse will carry the bit without ever having the bit used for a long time before the bridle reins are ever used.
The second you actually pull on the reins with a spade you are no longer using a signal bit, your using a leverage bit. As I said before, a spade is NOT, NOT, NOT a leverage bit.

These describe far better than i ever could about the spade.



A catherdral bit is NOT a spade. Even though some tack adds will call it that. The work of off the bars of the mouth and soft pallate of the horse where as the spade is working on the tongue and soft pallate.

Last edited by Fort fireman; 05-16-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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post #35 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 05:39 PM
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OMG - That video was awful (Clive wells) I'd be amazed if that poor horse didn't have a split right across its tongue after that. How can he even think himself a horseman?
Wanstrom had a Youtube channel and that disappeared too. I hope nothing went wrong with her pregnancy
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post #36 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 05:46 PM
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this is a pretty decnet video of a spade bit to. the good stuff starts around the 1 min 30 sec point. Martin Black is a LOOOONG way ahead of that other guy.


I hope nothing went wrong with Wanstrom also. i accepted her friend request and then she was gone. i was starting to get a complex.
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post #37 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 05:59 PM
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i was starting to get a complex.
A complex what?

Does anyone actually know Wanstrom, like in real life? Another one hoping that she is OK, and just to busy living to worry about being online.
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post #38 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fort fireman View Post
i was starting to get a complex.
A complex what?

Does anyone actually know Wanstrom, like in real life? Another one hoping that she is OK, and just to busy living to worry about being online.
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post #39 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 06:14 PM
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A complex what?

Does anyone actually know Wanstrom, like in real life? Another one hoping that she is OK, and just to busy living to worry about being online.
I know there is one member here that 'knows' her.....but they haven't heard from or got hold of her either.....
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post #40 of 77 Old 05-16-2013, 07:32 PM
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I'll tell you what., I would string that #%#stard up & put daylight through him if he did that to my horse!

MUSTANGS...AMERICAS REAL HORSE
RUGGED...EARTHY...AUTHENTIC...LEGENDARY
I WILL FOREVER BE A STUDENT OF THE HORSE.
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