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Horse killed at CA's in TX?

This is a discussion on Horse killed at CA's in TX? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-02-2013, 02:40 AM
      #331
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    Toto and Michael-read the thread and get a clue. There is NO evidence that the training or trainer had anything to do with the death of this horse. The CAUSE IS UNKNOWN. Horses can die anywhere, just like people, who die in their beds even! Geesh.
    I read-- if I read correct-- the OP said CA told the horse owner 'horses die during this training' and they still agreed. sounds like he's killed horses in the training before?
         
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        04-02-2013, 05:35 AM
      #332
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toto    
    I read-- if I read correct-- the OP said CA told the horse owner 'horses die during this training' and they still agreed. sounds like he's killed horses in the training before?
    We have no idea when CA said this. For all we know it may have been said after the horse died, as was already stated by someone long ago in this thread....as in "Horses die....." (which they do, just like people, etc) Horses dying is NOT the same as horses being KILLED. One does NOT equal the other. As long as things are alive on this earth, there will be things that die. We may mot always know the cause, and sometimes it may have nothing to do with anything. We just have to accept that sometimes, and we cannot accuse people of "killing" something unless we have some evidence of that.

    I would also suggest to you that perhaps you may want to do some of your own research (which is pretty easy to do) in cases like this to avoid wrongfully accusing people based on what someone else has posted. Read and come to your own conclusions, rather than just jumping on someone elses wagon.
    texasgal and gypsygirl like this.
         
        04-02-2013, 07:28 AM
      #333
    Started
    I'm not a groupie of any trainer - although I'd take CA over PP or Monty Roberts any day of the week, as a lot of the stuff I do happens to be his approach. But I'd like to provide a cultural perspective to his response.

    Firstly, this response came after a LOT of abuse online (and probably phone calls too) where he's been consistently harassed, and his staff probably have been too. The stuff I've seen out there is not nice at all, and very ignorant for the most part (think PETA met a bunch of angry Justin Bieber fans). It'd make me pretty mad too.

    CA is an Aussie. He's really a typical Aussie horseman who's managed to make it big. And his response reads like what I'd have expected from the horsemen I've known (some great, some terrible - that's not the point). No, it wasn't a professional scripted PR message, and that is probably a mistake on his part because he IS a public figure, but it was genuine. And it really wasn't that bad, if you read it as an Aussie - but I can see how it would be inappropriate to people in the US. And yes, that's his mistake, because he does deal with a global audience thanks to his success. But it wasn't rude and obnoxious as some people want to make out - it was frustrated, and not well thought out, but it was also not a copy-paste PR message, where you're left deciphering the bulls***. To be honest, if he weren't an international figure and the owner had been an Aussie, this response would be appreciated for its directness and lack of corporate cr*p.

    On another matter, most of the people making comment around the web are of the unicorn fart and butterfly ilk, and see the horse as a poor big cuddly thing that was abused to death. This was a horse that was consistently throwing people and injuring them - probably thanks to the owner seeing him as a fairy horse (as seen from her interpretation of his behaviour). I feel sorry for this horse, but not because it ran into CA. I feel sorry for it because it was pretty obviously not given any discipline by the owner, became a dangerous animal and died as a result. And had it just continued on its path of bad behaviour, there's a chance it would have ended up euthed as a dangerous animal. She created a problem, she wanted it fixed. She could have opted to retire the horse, but she didn't. In my book, her fault.
         
        04-02-2013, 07:38 AM
      #334
    Trained
    Agree almost totally EHOD, EXCEPT almost the last line, where you state the horse became dangerous and died as a result of it. Again, we do not know that the training had anything to do with the horses death, or what caused it at all. Horse may have died regardless of whether he was at his owners in his stall or at CA's.
         
        04-02-2013, 07:47 AM
      #335
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franknbeans    
    Agree almost totally EHOD, EXCEPT almost the last line, where you state the horse became dangerous and died as a result of it. Again, we do not know that the training had anything to do with the horses death, or what caused it at all. Horse may have died regardless of whether he was at his owners in his stall or at CA's.
    True enough - I guess my feeling is though that if that's the horse on her website home page, he is FAT. Pretty and shiny, but fat. Probably because he's being mollycoddled and is unrideable. So you have a fat horse that, due to its behavioural issues (or the inability of its owner to deal with them), has been put on a crash diet and is then put into "boot camp". They advise against this sort of thing with people for good reason! (And as has been noted numerous times, CA advises against reductions in feed before horses start the program.)
    onuilmar likes this.
         
        04-02-2013, 08:50 AM
      #336
    Green Broke
    Thanks for the perspective EHOD.

    I do feel bad for the horse. If the issue was all behavior-based and not medical, then we can definitely say that it was an owner-caused problem that the horse was spoiled and dangerous.

    I have a feeling this story wouldn't have ended well either way. If she hadn't sent the horse to CA we would likely be reading an article entitled:

    Rider dies after been thrown from horse - Owner sued.
         
        04-02-2013, 09:03 AM
      #337
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by texasgal    
    Thanks for the perspective EHOD.

    I do feel bad for the horse. If the issue was all behavior-based and not medical, then we can definitely say that it was an owner-caused problem that the horse was spoiled and dangerous.

    I have a feeling this story wouldn't have ended well either way. If she hadn't sent the horse to CA we would likely be reading an article entitled:

    Rider dies after been thrown from horse - Owner sued.
    Or maybe even, Dangerous horse that escaped rider and bolted dealt with by Animal Control, or something similar. It's terribly unfortunate that the horse is often the one that pays the ultimate price for the poor skills of their owner. And, say what you like about him, I think Clint's educational material has done a lot to teach many new horse owners how to deal with the more assertive horse and prevent or fix problems such as those this lady faced. Which I am sure has saved horses' lives, and perhaps even a few riders'... As I said earlier, I'm not a follower but I do appreciate that he provides a less touchy-feely approach than the usual NH crew.
    texasgal and Maple like this.
         
        04-02-2013, 09:10 AM
      #338
    Started
    I was thinking the exact thing texasgal. In all the "poor horsie, mean awful CA" nobody mentioned that in fact it was a horse that died, not a person.
    I wonder how this thread would have gone if the title was "my dangerous, spoiled horse killed CA or one of his trainers at his ranch during a "boot camp" training courses." Please feel sorry for me, they must have made my horse mad and he lashed out, or some such garbage. Or "now CA or the family of the person my horse killed is sueing me, isn't that awful?"
    Would all the CA haters still been trashing him or would it have turned on the owner of the spoiled, dangerous horse?
    Sometimes things need to be put into perspective, this horse likely was going to kill or severely injure someone if he had stayed in the owners "fairyland" world. She sent him for training, knowing LOTS more about the program and details than she has posted after the fact, I imagine.
         
        04-02-2013, 09:19 AM
      #339
    Weanling
    WOAH!! I never knew Clinton Anderson was that cruel! I would never let him near my horse! Someone should do an undercover investigation of his ranch.
         
        04-02-2013, 09:20 AM
      #340
    Yearling
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