Horse killed at CA's in TX? - Page 36 - The Horse Forum
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post #351 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 02:39 PM
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In my experience horses are accident prone to the point of being practically suicidal! I have seen them do grievous bodily harm to themselves on the most benign things! And the saying "Healthy as a horse" WHO MADE THAT UP???? Horses will keel over dead at the drop of a hat.
I can see if a horse owner asked CA "have you ever had a horse die in your program?"
I'm sure he would have had to say yes. Every trainer/barn manager who has had more than a hundred or so horses has probably had a horse die while in their care.
This thing has been blown all out of proportion on all sides, simply because CA has a big name. I'm defending him, and I don't even like his methods all that well

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post #352 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 02:58 PM
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I have a hard time believing this. I've been watching his programs for some three years now. I think the series on "Tricky Warrior" showed in one episode that the horse needed just a little more training before he reared up circling the trees. I wouldn't have aired that one before retaping, and it shows at the worst, that the "Method" is a little more important sometimes than tailoring the method. Horses don't lie. You cannot get an animal to follow you calmly if you abuse them. I recently saw Dennis Reis retrain an Arabian who HAD been abused. He didn't make a big deal out of it, but I saw this horse smacking his lips continuously when he felt nervous. I have never seen a horse do that before. Dennis was using appropriate training, and he made great progress, yet that horse HAD to have been beaten up by somebody in his past and was genuinely frightened of human training.
Today it's really easy to slander another American. If this poster had the guts, I would suggest advertising this story. At least, they and CA could get their attorneys involved in a property settlement.
Horses can die under stress. "Corporal" (1982-2009, RIP) suffered a stroke his last day on earth, had fallen into my shelter's manger, and couldn't get out, even with our help. At 27yo, his heart just gave out. If I had been boarding him, I couldn't have blamed a BO for this event. I'm betting that the owner had signed a release and cannot take legal action.
Even with the bad comments against the Parelli's, I still would trust them training my horses. I say, get over it.

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post #353 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by faye View Post
Nope not rare at all, it happens, horses have heart attacks, anurisms and ruptured diaphragms, heck a pony can break its neck in a field.

I've had it happen to me. Pony fine in his field at 11am, dead by 3pm checks. No signs of struggle or thrashing (and on a wet day in a muddy field so you would have seen it). Pony had won at a major county show 3 days previously.
He had ruptured his diaphragm possibly when he lay down to roll, vet reckons it was a weakness that he probably had all his life and it just chose that moment to give. Why it gave then is a mystery.

I will add Friesians are well known for being very inbred and having LOTS of associated health conditions. Aortic anurisms happens to be one of them.

Heck Reeco nearly died during his training. He came exactly 2 inches from death (I Know because I measured it). When retraining dangerous horses sometimes things go wrong. With Reeco that was the first time we did his girth up, he bolted blind, head first into a wall, knocked a brick out of the wall and fractured his skull. There were no warning signs, no tensing up he just went.
2 inches from where his head met the wall there was a bolt sticking out at least 4" which would have pierced his skull and killed him instantly had he hit that and not the wall.

I dont know CA, I havnt knowingly used any of his techniques but as a realistic owner of a problem horse that went through retraining (and for the record I spent the equivalent of $6000 on retraining him) I would not judge him without having been there and seen what happened.

I am realistic enough to know that retraining problem horses is not rainbows and butterflys. Heck my lads trainer sat me down and told me that the technique she was about to use on him was an absolute last resort and that if it went badly wrong it could result in a broken neck. It didnt go wrong due to her and her teams skilled use of it and it did solve his problem.

CA's boot camp sounds to me like a last resort for problem or dangerous horses. There is more potential for things to go wrong when horses have gotten to that stage.

My trainer was happy enough for me to watch however she did not want a group turning up on the yard, you would have to fit in round the horses training and no you wouldnt be given a guided tour or individual attention.

I said earlier I was done...but had to come back for a couple things.

The essentially...CA in boot camp (6 weeks long) it's putting out "45 day wonders." It takes a HECK of a longer time than that to get one trained. ESPECIALLY if you have a rank horse, which is what this horse sounded like. You HAVE to start at the beginning, and ANY good trainer knows....that it takes close to a year to get one finished or close to it. How long was your horse in training where you spent $6,000? Was it longer than 6 weeks? Just curious is all....
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post #354 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
We have no idea when CA said this. For all we know it may have been said after the horse died, as was already stated by someone long ago in this in "Horses die....." (which they do, just like people, etc) Horses dying is NOT the same as horses being KILLED. One does NOT equal the other. As long as things are alive on this earth, there will be things that die. We may mot always know the cause, and sometimes it may have nothing to do with anything. We just have to accept that sometimes, and we cannot accuse people of "killing" something unless we have some evidence of that.

I would also suggest to you that perhaps you may want to do some of your own research (which is pretty easy to do) in cases like this to avoid wrongfully accusing people based on what someone else has posted. Read and come to your own conclusions, rather than just jumping on someone elses wagon.

OP made it sound like CA said this to the owner as a warning ?? Questioning her choice to do the 'bootcamp'? Why bring up 'death' if horses werent 'being killed' in the 'bootcamp'?

I sure hate to assume things but when someone says 'horses die in my bootcamp' before i bring them to their program-- im gonna think twice about it fer sure.. because it sounds harsh. If he said 'fun fact-- horses die of old age' i wouldnt even question it.

What did you find when you researched it? Was it an april fools day prank?.. people are so sneaky now dayz.
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post #355 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:47 PM
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Boot camp I wouldn't think is to actually train horses... More like getting them respectful and maybe teaching them a few basics. They are there to get respect & get rid of problems that otherwise maybe would have been giving up on.

Just my 2cents.
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post #356 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:49 PM
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^ trainer has never said to me..."hey your horse might die here." It's a given that horses die, but when you send your horse out for training....and that is said...I would be like, "no thanks...I've changed my mind." It just says red flags to me.
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post #357 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EmilyJoy View Post
Boot camp I wouldn't think is to actually train horses... More like getting them respectful and maybe teaching them a few basics. They are there to get respect & get rid of problems that otherwise maybe would have been giving up on.

Just my 2cents.
But that IS training!!! If this horse was rank and bucked everyone off...OBVIOUSLY the horse was not started correctly. SO....when THAT happens you start all over again FROM the beginning....a clean slate.
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post #358 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 04:53 PM
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Yeah maybe so, but as stated earlier I doubt he actually said that to his customers out right, I'm thinking it was written on his legal papers as to protect him if something like this (unpredictable) happens.

Totally agree that it is training. I could have whacked myself for saying that. More like getting rid of past issues, respect and starting out fresh again. Sort of like brain washing?

Edit; what I meant by "not training" was not teaching him to flex under saddle, not teaching him to neck rein.. etc... YES he is training, everybody is training always. He is training for respect, not training to do things...

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Last edited by EmilyJoy; 04-02-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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post #359 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 05:14 PM
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How do you know he didnt say that to the owner of that horse? Seems like an honest man to me in the vids ive seen him in. Most horse people (the honest ones) are straight forward-- they wont leave something out because it sounds good-- if they bring in tons of business they probably wont mind having a few people walk away anyway.

If it was in the contract the owner would have stated that? Most people dont understand how to get respect from a horse-- they think dominating is how you earn respect.. that might work in jail or with dogs but not horses. If you want respect you need to be the leader-- ive never seen a leader work a horse to death-- a leader would see the horse is getting tired and stop for the day not keep pushing. If the horse isnt learning the way the trainer keeps pushing-- time to try another way!

Deth shouldnt even be an option in a 'professional' facility. They should have great vets farriers nutritionists chyropractors etcetra that are easily reachable. There aint no excuses!!
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post #360 of 408 Old 04-02-2013, 05:23 PM
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It was the owner's fault for letting her horse get this dangerous to begin with.

A dangerous horse is only worth the price the meat buyers will pay - friesian or not.

At least he died trying to be saved. Though "last ditch efforts" hardly work out.
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