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post #21 of 27 Old 01-30-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post
True, BUT, if you were pushing the wrong "buttons" consistently, I think you would be UNtraining the horse. You are reinforcing the proper training, so you ARE training it.

I typically am in the same mindset as Nancy, that a person could fairly effectively dull the training on a horse if they were unaware that their poor riding was detrimental.


Originally Posted by GotaDunQH View Post
You would be training the PERSON, not the horse...the horse already knows, the person doesn't. Take my horse for instance...you could push the wrong buttons....but there is no way you are untraining him.
I've worked with a couple of lesson horses trained to a higher level who typically no respond when a student "pressed the wrong button". They are pretty few and far between though in my experience.

I'm also a very strong believer in that a horse who's not entirely honest (yes there are bombproof babysitters who make all other horses look bad) will act and work differently due to the rider's attitude, ability and leadership. These horses may be the one's who seem to be "untrained" because they are so willing to take the easy way out for themselves??

Back on topic of the thread though, I agree that there are a million ways to train a horse and there happen to be a million trainers out there. Everyone has a way that seems to work best for them or that they are most comfortable with. The good trainers, IMO, will keep an open mind when their ways aren't successful and try other things or admit that the problem is something they are unsure of fixing with that horse.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-30-2014, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GotaDunQH View Post
In your case, because you have camp horses...you aren't re-training them, you are REMINDING them of what they already know.
I can agree with that. Thanks for taking the time to talk this through. This will give me some fun stuff to think about. I like to keep a few mental bones around to pull out and chew on from time to time. You have given me a new Bone.
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-30-2014, 08:09 PM
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^ I enjoyed it as well, and camp horses are tough...been there and done that when I ran a small horse camp. But I betcha when you swing a leg over one of your camp horses, they think..."oh man, that guy who knows what he's doing is on me now" and they suddenly remember their training.
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-30-2014, 08:14 PM
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^^ true True and it really makes me mad sometimes I want to get on a horse and fix a problem they are giving a camper and as soon as my butt hits the saddle the problem just goes away.
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post #25 of 27 Old 02-03-2014, 02:43 PM
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Anyone that has worked with TB's, Saddlebreds or Arabians, can vouch for the fact that some things just do not work well with them.

I would bet your Appendix is more TB in mannerisms, than QH.

And that difference is why JL won't work with hot breeds, because they react so differently.

Reading a horse is imperative, if you are going to be any good with them.

Part and parcel of that is "feeling" what works, and what doesn't.

Horses make me a better person.
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post #26 of 27 Old 02-07-2014, 01:49 PM
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"oh man, that guy who knows what he's doing is on me now" and they suddenly remember their training.[/QUOTE] (my 1st attempt to quote someone--bear with me if this comes out all wrong.)

agreed----having been "run over" at the feed bucket i teach all mine to back away until i dump their feed---got one (born here) back after several yrs away and he was incredibly pushy in general but feeding time he rushed the bucket and i just walked away and put his feed up--went back out there an hour later and he still had attitude but not as firm--3rd attempt an hour later and he started backing up as i started to walk away--look in his eye clearly was an "OOPS"!!! they know what they know but they also know who else knows what they know!!!!!LOL.
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post #27 of 27 Old 02-19-2014, 09:54 PM
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I find the 'un-teaching' versus 'reminding' discussion very interesting. Originally, I would have agreed with the un-teaching stance, but after reading I've changed my mind.

We actually had a recent incident that highlights this perfectly. We have a elding at our barn that came out from pasture after two years of who knows what kind of riding and was brought to us. (We eventually bought him.) Anyways, we trained him in the basics, and began cutting and sorting training on him. He had great lateral movement off his front, and a nice, deep backup. A little lazy, but laziness is easier to deal with than hotness. He was ready for low level shows- we just hadn't brought him to one yet. Come show time a good friend asked if he could ride him since his mare was due to foal in a few weeks. We agreed, though were slightly wary. The man wasn't a super accomplished rider.

Fast forward a few days later, and the horse is a wreck. He'd back up when asked, then prance, lurch, and back up more when cued forward. Any cues to turn were recognized by several steps backward, a 90 degree turn, and more backing up. He wouldn't sit still. He would go from a walk to a trot instead of a walk to a lope, like he had been trained.

Now, did he know that he was following the cue the wrong way, or was he dulled down by the bad rider?

We proceeded with correcting him. I would get him to back up, stop, then walk forward. If he backed up again instead he got the free side of a split reign on his derriere. Within five minutes he was back to normal. So I have to wonder if I was just reminding him, because he was honestly confused when I first got on.
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