Les Vogt got lucky on this one. - Page 3
 
 

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Les Vogt got lucky on this one.

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  • How much is a Les Vogt p 408 worth

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    02-05-2014, 03:29 AM
  #21
Trained
I haven't watched the clip, my internet is bad right now, but I don't think any of us are in a position to criticize Les Vogt.

Have a little respect for the man - He's accomplished more in a lifetime and had great (Not good, but great) horses, something most of us will only ever dream of. He's a better horseman than the entire forum put together. I've seen his work firsthand, and it's important to remember even if you have been riding for years and years you can make a mistake.

From the sounds of it there was some misinterpretation of bridling a horse up, or him using his hands. A cowhorse has to TAKE that. Bash it all you will, there's no room for error or a lift of the head in that class. You take their head and leave them alone. If they raise up, you take it back then leave it be again, until they travel with it in one spot and respond to you driving them up from their hind end.

I'll watch the clip later.
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    02-05-2014, 06:19 AM
  #22
Trained
^^You really need to watch the clip prior to offering an opinion. There was NO release. At any point. While I agree with his basic abilities as a horsemen and respect him as such, this horse was more than "bridled up". He was more like "cranked in".
     
    02-05-2014, 08:45 AM
  #23
Foal
I have NO idea who the guy in the video is, but I assume he was a top trainer, or some such in the US?

The riding I saw was absolutely terrible. That poor horse, he's lucky it didn't kick him in the head for good measure. Rearing like that is human created unless the horse is an absolute nutcase (a case worth shooting) which I highly doubt this one is..

Yank yank yank, and then the horse does EXACTLY what the rider is asking.
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    02-05-2014, 10:03 AM
  #24
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
I haven't watched the clip, my internet is bad right now, but I don't think any of us are in a position to criticize Les Vogt.

Have a little respect for the man - He's accomplished more in a lifetime and had great (Not good, but great) horses, something most of us will only ever dream of. He's a better horseman than the entire forum put together. I've seen his work firsthand, and it's important to remember even if you have been riding for years and years you can make a mistake.

From the sounds of it there was some misinterpretation of bridling a horse up, or him using his hands. A cowhorse has to TAKE that. Bash it all you will, there's no room for error or a lift of the head in that class. You take their head and leave them alone. If they raise up, you take it back then leave it be again, until they travel with it in one spot and respond to you driving them up from their hind end.

I'll watch the clip later.
You really need to watch the clip, I don't care if he was the best rider in the world with the prettiest ponehs, that was poorly done. There was no release, the horse responded as all horses do, fight or flight! He got that burr off his back a.s.a.p to get release.

People freak out over rollkur, which I do NOT agree with, I think its a horrid practice, this looked just as bad imo.
     
    02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
  #25
Yearling
I don't care if this man won more trophies then any other human on the planet. THAT riding was BAD and WRONG. I suspect if that is his normal way of getting to the top, he has a lot of horses with sore mouths and worse as well. '

I have gotten to a place in my life where trophies and awards impress me far less then a persons character. This was a short clip and he is a likely a lot more of a man then that clip showed. That said, what I saw here was more then enough to judge that ride.

There was a trainer in the Tennessee Walking world that won championship after championship as well. They caught him on video abusing the heck out of a horse. So much so that it caused a nationwide frenzy about the abuse in the Big Lick shows. My point being, winning means nothing to me, if it takes abuse to get there. What the man in the video did to that horse's mouth was out of line in my book. I would never expect a horse to endure abuse to it's mouth like that for any reason, and certainly not for a trophy or ribbon. From what I saw in the video, that horse was very willing and didn't do anything to deserve that ripping on his mouth.
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    02-05-2014, 10:48 AM
  #26
Trained
Inga-I would NEVER compare this to the Big Lick abuse. Sorry, but nothing compares to that. WE also do not know anything but what we saw in 40 seconds. Therefore, we have no idea how truly "willing" the horse was.All we can see is that for that 40 seconds, there was no release. Don't get me wrong, I don't support his yanking, but we can only judge by what we see here.
Fort fireman likes this.
     
    02-05-2014, 10:51 AM
  #27
Yearling
My point wasn't saying it was the same thing as the Big Lick abuse. There is nothing that I have seen to date (and hope there never is) that will compare to that in the horse world. My POINT was that abuse it abuse and winning the most trophies and titles is still no excuse for it. That comment was in response to Sorrelhorse who hadn't even watched the clip but defended this mans abilities because of his accomplishments in life. In my book, those accomplishments mean nothing if the means of getting there are abusive.
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    02-05-2014, 11:28 AM
  #28
Trained
Yeahhhh. I don't care who he is either.

What got to me was this video wasn't presented as a "what not to do", instead he blamed it on the horse... That's poor character and poor horsemanship.
Posted via Mobile Device
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    02-05-2014, 12:03 PM
  #29
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
I haven't watched the clip, my internet is bad right now, but I don't think any of us are in a position to criticize Les Vogt.

Have a little respect for the man - He's accomplished more in a lifetime and had great (Not good, but great) horses, something most of us will only ever dream of. He's a better horseman than the entire forum put together. I've seen his work firsthand, and it's important to remember even if you have been riding for years and years you can make a mistake.

From the sounds of it there was some misinterpretation of bridling a horse up, or him using his hands. A cowhorse has to TAKE that. Bash it all you will, there's no room for error or a lift of the head in that class. You take their head and leave them alone. If they raise up, you take it back then leave it be again, until they travel with it in one spot and respond to you driving them up from their hind end.

I'll watch the clip later.
Watch the video and then come back and tell us he wasn't heavy handed. I agree he has done alot and as said in my earlier posts I like his bits and tack. His riding I've seen up until this point was good. He's isn't my favorite out there but he is a heck of alot better than alot I've seen. That being said IMHO this was a major hiccup in his riding. It happens. Hopefully it doesn;t happen again or isn't a regular thing..

Oh, and a cowhorse does not have to "TAKE" that.
     
    02-05-2014, 12:35 PM
  #30
Green Broke
Respect does not = free pass for a mistake. Everybody is human everybody MAKES mistakes and everybody will critique ad form their on opinions on it.

I have loads of respect for Monty Roberts.....does that mean that I have to be blindly devoted too him if(when ) he would make a mistake? Nopers ;P
Fahntasia and Inga like this.
     

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