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Now I've heard everything...

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        06-28-2013, 11:15 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher    
    just to clarify, a running martingale gives you no mechanical advantage whatsoever (i.e. They aren't a lever). They only change the direction of the pressure.



    With a crowbar you trade distance for force also.
    Yes, they do and yes they are.
         
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        06-28-2013, 11:21 PM
      #22
    Weanling
    Please explain the physics
         
        06-28-2013, 11:45 PM
      #23
    Weanling
    I can explain the contrary physics, and that is that any kind of lever (including both pulleys and crowbars) trades distance for force, as you put it. And because if I pull 1 inch of rein through a running martingale ring, regardless of whether or not it's engaged, it translates to 1 inch of rein movement on the other side of the martingale ring, you aren't losing and movement, therefore not gaining any force.
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        06-29-2013, 12:36 AM
      #24
    Trained
    I actually see the logic in the argument that a running martingale can help a horses mouth, if you have a rider with unsteady hands, it can I think act as a kind of damper, think up and down movement being levelled out a little, gives a constant angle of contact.

    Of course it needs to be fitted properly, and used with the right bit, but I think they can be a very useful artificial aid in the right circumstaces
         
        06-29-2013, 12:58 AM
      #25
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palogal    
    No it's a lever. A pulley trades distance for force, a lever just multiplies force like a crowbar.

    So if you pull on the rope on a pulley to lift something heavy you will have to pull it farther than you want it to move but you will use les force to move a heavy object. Think weight room machines. You move your arms or legs farther distance wise than you move the weight, but you use less force than you would if you were lifting them without the pulley (free weights).
    I do not think you can have lever action on something that is not stiff, like a crowbar or board, over the fulcrum. Since the rein is not stiff, the action is not the same. That's why I likened it more to a pulley. But, I am not sure it really is either.
         
        06-29-2013, 01:12 AM
      #26
    Weanling
    This is just something I've noticed with my horse (and probably a result of his badbadbad former training before he came to me...) but just putting my reins through a running martingale without engaging it even once during a ride makes him OODLES softer in his face! He also engages his back more at the canter, oddly enough. He's a weirdo, though, so I wouldn't call him the norm.

    I'm not sure how a running martingale would "save a horse's mouth" on principle, though... how odd! I don't particularly love any contraptions (outside my bit, bridle, saddle and girth!) to begin with.
         
        06-30-2013, 01:25 AM
      #27
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by existentialpony    
    This is just something I've noticed with my horse (and probably a result of his badbadbad former training before he came to me...) but just putting my reins through a running martingale without engaging it even once during a ride makes him OODLES softer in his face! He also engages his back more at the canter, oddly enough. He's a weirdo, though, so I wouldn't call him the norm.
    You're not alone in that. My mare rides 110% better in her running martingale than without. She gives that "test" in the beginning to see if it's there then rarely engages it again. I guess in our instances I can see it saving the mouth LOL. She likes to grab the bit and pull/jerk her head, and since she's big it pulls me out of the saddle & the only way to prevent that is really hold tight (and sit deep) and let her jam her mouth against the bit The running martingale allows me to not get yanked out of the saddle, let her correct herself, & on we go.
         
        07-01-2013, 04:07 PM
      #28
    Foal
    Perhaps someone needs to get a book on basic training methods, bits, bridles, aids, etc. Should only use martingale with a snaffle bit, am I right? The martingale works two ways...one to help a rider stay out of a horses's mouth if they are learning how to ride correctly, and to help train a horse to be more sensitive to pressure on the bit without making him hard in the mouth. I have thought of using a martingale on my quarter horse since she can ignore any pressure on the bit, I am back to a snaffle bit, which she seems to enjoy. She is doing much better with ground work because I don't know what the previous people did to her when riding....so back to the basics until she relaxes and pays more attention to me than what is going on with the other horses.
         
        07-01-2013, 04:12 PM
      #29
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by existentialpony    
    This is just something I've noticed with my horse (and probably a result of his badbadbad former training before he came to me...) but just putting my reins through a running martingale without engaging it even once during a ride makes him OODLES softer in his face! He also engages his back more at the canter, oddly enough. He's a weirdo, though, so I wouldn't call him the norm.

    I'm not sure how a running martingale would "save a horse's mouth" on principle, though... how odd! I don't particularly love any contraptions (outside my bit, bridle, saddle and girth!) to begin with.
    I can relate to how some badbadbad former trainer/riders treated my horse, so I think a running martingale will help alot. She's doing good with
    Two weeks of ground work, but, she still has some bad habits that need to be worked out. Patience is a great virtue with animals!
         
        07-03-2013, 06:23 PM
      #30
    Foal
    I sometimes use a running martingale on my horse but only because she is a head-in-the-air kinda girl. I ride with very soft hands. I just like to know she is not going to hit me in the face with her head. Like Natisha said, It gives instant pressure and release.
         

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