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Parelli or Clinton Anderson?

This is a discussion on Parelli or Clinton Anderson? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Clinton anderson vs pat parelli
  • Clintton anderson reacting versus

View Poll Results: Parelli or Clinton Anderson
Parelli 9 12.68%
Clinton Anderson 42 59.15%
other (if so comment who) 20 28.17%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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    01-20-2013, 11:47 AM
  #91
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
Where I live, spook in place means the horse's first reaction to something scary is to wait for the rider to decide what to do. It means 'stand still and listen to your rider instead of run mindlessly away'. It isn't a bad thing at all...

I LIKE horses that spook in place.
i guess we have different thoughts then. I don't care if my horse moves a bit, as long as they keep out of my space, but I want them to relax quickly even if they get scared. I would rather have a little movement followed quickly by relaxation, then a tense horse glued to one spot.
     
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    01-20-2013, 12:12 PM
  #92
Weanling
I prefer Clinton, mostly because I've seen Parelli followers try and befriend their horses with bribery or coddling that results in being trampled by their horse or crowding them. I recall a situation where we had the grain bucket race and there were two individuals that I knew followed the Parelli circle... Their horses about clobbered them for a bucket of grain.

I like that Clinton is a bit firmer (sometimes to a fault) and I've liked his methods. However, that being said I stay away from any horses that have "natural horsemanship" tied into their sale ads. More often than not they're a part-time natural horsemanship "trainer" with a horse that has no respect.

Then again anyone trying to be a "friend" with a thousand pound animal is asking to be walked all over.

I've done things Clinton has done, but I don't follow him "religiously" I prefer John Lyons ;)
bsms likes this.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:14 PM
  #93
Foal
I don't want to argue but some of the things you say can't go by without comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
Clinton Anderson.

If Parelli people aren't calling this abuse

Pat Parelli Abuses Horse "Catwalk" at Natural Horsemanship Demonstration - YouTube
I didn't actually see anything from that short grainy film that was abusive just a difficult horse (who by the way was not showing signs of fear more of determined attitude not to be handled around the head)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
Then Clinton's is no where near abuse.

I also do not like that way that Pat says 'my way or the high way'. Very arrogant, I will never follow a person like that.

I have heard many things and his way is very 'fluffy' and unrealistic.

He has stated before, that you can be 'one' with your horse. There shouldn't be a leader in the relationship, etc. and that you and your horse should be on the same level. Which is flat-out bogus. If you look at a heard of horses in the pasture or the wild there is no such thing as horses 'being one'. There is always a alpha horse, and then a less-dominant horse. No such thing as 'one' in the world of the horse. If your not going to be the leader then the horse will be.
This is totally wrong in Parelli NH we are taught that the relationship is 51%human 49% horse, Humans should always be the alpha

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
I've also been told by a Pat Parelli guy that if your horse bites you, ignore it or give him a carrot. He was serious. I just looked at him like, "Are you for real?"
In PNH we don't retaliate we get the horse to back up out of our space so that can't bite. Your 'Parelli guy was wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
Anyways I've seen many horses through the Parelli program. None of them came up normal, to say the most. A friend did the Parelli program and she told me that she saw no improvement in her horses, and if anything they got even worse and bored.
I think that says more about your friend that it does about Parelli!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
Parelli, IMO, uses unrealistic approaches to horses. His arrogance turns me the other way, and all the Parelli horses I've seen are bad. He's simply not my cup of tea.

Clinton on the other hand is what I like. I've seen many Clinton horses, and they're just fabulous. All are quiet, calm, etc. They're great horses. Better than what I've seen Parelli do.
That's ok we all are allow an opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAQHAGirl    
And if I'm correct I believe that Clinton was one of Parelli's students at one point..

But other than Clinton I really like Larry Trocha and John Lyons and Buck Brannaman.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:20 PM
  #94
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
...i would rather have a little movement followed quickly by relaxation, then a tense horse glued to one spot.
The goal isn't a tense horse rooted in one spot. It is a spooked horse who waits for his rider to decide what to do. If the horse is tense because there is a rattlesnake in front of us, we may turn around. If it is a quad, I may find a spot off the trail where we can let it go by. And if it is some bit of trash someone dumped in the desert and doesn't look like it belongs there, we'll go on past it or over it. My call.

I've had them stop for javelina, coyotes, snakes, ATVs, loose dogs, aluminum foil...and how I want to respond varies. I don't want a horse who goes forward even if he sees a rattlesnake and I do not. I don't need an immobile horse. I do need one that waits for my decision. Standing still and waiting for instruction beats the tar out of running in blind panic...
smrobs, FaydesMom and Hang on Fi like this.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:20 PM
  #95
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiepentrecoed    
I don't want to argue but some of the things you say can't go by without comment!


I didn't actually see anything from that short grainy film that was abusive just a difficult horse (who by the way was not showing signs of fear more of determined attitude not to be handled around the head)


This is totally wrong in Parelli NH we are taught that the relationship is 51%human 49% horse, Humans should always be the alpha


In PNH we don't retaliate we get the horse to back up out of our space so that can't bite. Your 'Parelli guy was wrong!

I think that says more about your friend that it does about Parelli!


That's ok we all are allow an opinion
If you have to twitch a horse to touch his head, you are seriously lacking in your training program, I don't care who you are or how much money you make or how many followers you have, that isn't a good practice and will ultimately make things a lot worse...
     
    01-20-2013, 12:28 PM
  #96
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiepentrecoed    
...This is totally wrong in Parelli NH we are taught that the relationship is 51%human 49% horse, Humans should always be the alpha

...In PNH we don't retaliate we get the horse to back up out of our space so that can't bite. Your 'Parelli guy was wrong!...
My horses prefer a higher ratio of human control. If they have 49%, they could go to 50.1% pretty easily, and that makes them tense. They act happier if they believe they don't have any decisions to make.

I would retaliate if my horse bit me. I'd not just back them out of my space, I'd have them wanting to leave the planet! And if I chose to spare their life, then we could go back to normal.

But I'm a nobody, and my horses aren't anything to boast about. YMMV.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #97
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
The goal isn't a tense horse rooted in one spot. It is a spooked horse who waits for his rider to decide what to do. If the horse is tense because there is a rattlesnake in front of us, we may turn around. If it is a quad, I may find a spot off the trail where we can let it go by. And if it is some bit of trash someone dumped in the desert and doesn't look like it belongs there, we'll go on past it or over it. My call.

I've had them stop for javelina, coyotes, snakes, ATVs, loose dogs, aluminum foil...and how I want to respond varies. I don't want a horse who goes forward even if he sees a rattlesnake and I do not. I don't need an immobile horse. I do need one that waits for my decision. Standing still and waiting for instruction beats the tar out of running in blind panic...
i don't want my horse to panic bolt...clearly. I want her to deal and relax and keep on doing what she's doing, I don't want her to stop and I don't necessarily want her to wait for me. If theres a dog or an atv she shouldnt have to stop trotting and wait for direction, she should keep trotting and navigate calmly.

What would I do at a show if she stopped at everything that spooked her a bit ?
     
    01-20-2013, 12:47 PM
  #98
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
If you have to twitch a horse to touch his head, you are seriously lacking in your training program, I don't care who you are or how much money you make or how many followers you have, that isn't a good practice and will ultimately make things a lot worse...
I admire your thinking and in many ways I too agree, but and there is always a but! Like many things/tools in the wrong hands are dangerous and cruel, in certain situations there is a place for twitching, done with care and consideration, for example I personally know what the affects are ( natural release of sedating endorphins) and in extreme situations and for the safety of both horse and handlers a humane lip twitch (in UK we have a none rope metal device that can be applied/released in seconds) is far better than some of the alternatives!
I have one in my yard, I have not had the need to use it for years now, but I would not hesitate to use it if I deemed it to be useful for a particular situation.
I worked with stallions/studs many years ago and observed the way they used the same bite/twitch (on the neck) to calm mares.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #99
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
...what would I do at a show if she stopped at everything that spooked her a bit ?
With time, they will learn what bothers their rider and what does not. Mia used to be scared because a palo verde tree shed its flowers. Now she doesn't care. Trooper did get scared once...kids on a trampoline. They were behind a fence, and all he could hear/see was kids screaming, and then flying up in the air. He was quite concerned at whatever it was behind the fence that was flinging screaming kids in the air. Now that he's seen it a few times, he knows that doesn't bother me so it doesn't need to bother him.

OTOH, he knows I don't like to ride over the top of rattlesnakes. That is good. I don't want a horse who goes forward without regard for what lies ahead. I doubt you do either...a good horse is somewhere in between. Not constantly stopping, not rooted with fear, but not unaware of what lies ahead.
smrobs and FaydesMom like this.
     
    01-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #100
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
i don't want my horse to panic bolt...clearly. I want her to deal and relax and keep on doing what she's doing, I don't want her to stop and I don't necessarily want her to wait for me. If theres a dog or an atv she shouldnt have to stop trotting and wait for direction, she should keep trotting and navigate calmly.

What would I do at a show if she stopped at everything that spooked her a bit ?
I'm not saying twitches are cruel, they can be very useful for the correct circumstances. But when you are trying to reach a headshy horse, like PP was doing in the video AQHAGirl posted, that is an unnacceptable way of training a horse to "enjoy" his head being touched.. I've seen it done a hundred times and there was never a good outcome to it. They just ended up with a horse that you couldn't touch his ears, head or mouth. I'm not against twitches. I do prefer war bridles to twitches though. But as far as using them for specifically training a headshy horse, IMO, it shouldnt be done.
     

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