Parelli or Clinton Anderson?

I know the most about John Lyons but my current trainer uses Clinton Anderson. I've never been impressed with Parelli.

In my opinion I think they are both sell outs in a way. Just my opinion. I've sat and watched there shows and they both have some decent info but it is like watching a hour long commercial for "MY STUFF" buy My stuff. Clintion has rope halters that cost $1.50 worth of rope and you to can own one for 45 bucks. It has two knots on the nose band. Wahoo!. Buy my string and stick for 60 bucks. Lets face it, it's a flippin short lounge whip. I am not saying they don't have good info or merrit just alot of wading through BS to get the info.
Again just my opinion but it gets alittle over board.

I really like Buck Brannaman. I know he had a movie out about him not long ago and hopefully it doesn't change him in a bad way. ( I don't think it will) he just seems to stil be in it to help people with horses. I would have loved to be able to sit down with Bill or Tom Dorrance or Ray hunt. Just to try to soak alittle of that wisdom.
Not to mention I am seeming to gravitate more toward the vaquero style of horsemanship. It is "natural horsemanship" before natural horsemanship existed. The only problem is here in NC people kinda look at ya funny when you mention it and ya just kinda have to wait for a Buck Brannman to come to town.

Again all opinions.

I used CA's mthtods but have modified them to the individual horse. One of his methods I don't like is how he sends a horse off while on the lunge in the second level of lunging for respect..he gets them to change direction quickly and then sends them off fast...I just see a lot of possible leg injuries with that and will do the same but send them off in a walk and bring them back up to the trot.

I absolutely cannot fault CA's loading method and have used this same thing on a few horses at our barn who were absolute loading nightmares. Now they literally load themselves.

Can you please explain how the lunging for respect stage 2 can cause leg problems? Do you believe it is any worse than normal work or running in the pasture?

Tlkng, one other thing to consider...the reason that he asks for such a fast turn and quick takeoff is not just for respect, they are the groundwork base for the under saddle rollbacks and hard turns. Because he rides reining/working cow horses, hard turns and rollbacks are a huge part of his training regimen.

Not everyone needs those and not everyone can ride them even if their horse does them properly, but it is nice to have a horse that will do it when you ask.

I see where it might be harder on their legs than say, turning a slow turn and walking out of it, but I don't see that it could be any harder on them than asking for them to sit a stop out of a lope, spin 180* and lope off again.

Pretty much everything we do with horses poses risks to their joint health and longevity. The best you can really do is not to avoid those things, but to make sure the horse is properly prepared and conditioned to do the action.

Just for an example. A horse that has been taught how to properly do a rollback is much less likely to bow a tendon or torque a joint if they spook and spin during a standard ride.

The worst thing you can do for a horses joints is work them in a 50 foot circle for endless repetitions like so many people think they need to do.

I ride english so rollbacks aren't a necessary part of the program :) but thehorse I had worked the method on previously did have fun with them and did them well and would do a rollback at the walk. What concerned me, however, is he did have arthritis in the hocks so I didn't want to push the speed off issue with him. SMRobs I didn't think about the spook issue :) but you have a point there and horses certainly do psin on their own when in the paddock or just free...call me paranoid :)

Kevin, I admit that if I have to lunge to bleed off energy I much prefer a free lunge. I do use the line if I am trying to work topline and stretching exercises or in the case of my new horse, trying to build muscle by working him up and down a hill in one of the turnout paddocks (we were battling a saddle rub on his withers so I wasn't riding).

Well, a horse trainer should be available when you need him. So I was always on the search for the best horse trainer I can get and she/he needs to be in the neighbourhood of say 20mls. I have seen some specialists and could have arranged a lesson or two. But imagine the next week you going to run into a problem or an unsolved question. What are you going to do then? Taking you cell phone while being horseback or typing an email?

I do like the trainers around the corner, sometimes the less shiny person can give you the right advice w/o creating a show for the audience. Well, that is just where I come from

Just as it helps to have other riding instructors it helps to get a view from other trainers. Yes, we like the local trainers obviously as they are available, however, they also tend to have their own way of doing things. I like getting informaiton from several sources before making a decision on what will work with my particular horse. In my case, the barn I am at is anti-clinician except for George Morris and waved off when I intriduce CAs methods rto my horse, yet, in nearly a year of "halp" from the trainers at the barn, the horse still had lousy ground manners. In 6 months of work with CA's methods, his ground manners vastly improved. S an aside, he wasn't my first ever horse and his ground manners, while I called them lousy, weren't extremely bad..he wasn't a biter or kicker..he just wasn't as "pleasant" as I would have liked to see.

I think this is the 4th thread on this subject but I believe that these NH trainers hit the market at just the right time. One of my (now) 15yo teenage help came out last Saturday and I found myself telling her she should buy young and started but NOT ruined when she buys her first horse--mom and dad aren't in the market to buy one for her.
I believe that people stopped spending adequate TIME with their horses in the 1990's and theses horses were changing hands without retraining out obedience issues. CA, and the others aren't trainers so much as they are RE-trainers. To see good initial training I watch Dennis Reis and Chris Cox. (I'm wondering if Natisha is watching him or his horse, lol.) The horses that they turn out are the proof in the pudding. I remember a Cox program where he took a 3 yo to an eventing course in TX. His gelding was obedient in the Dressage arena and he taught him to jump a log on the ground before trying it with him aboard. ALL of the time the horse was calm, and flexed. He also had a program introducing neck reining to a 2yo and the result is what you WANT in any horse, accomplished in a short period of time with logical reasoned steps that you can duplicate.
Dennis Reis demostrates to ME in his programs that you can be the boss, in the same way that my horse, "Tyke" (1970-1998, RIP) established HIS authority (1994) with another's horse. Tyke was tied to our trailer, the other horse was tied about 12 feet away on another trailer. Tyke took ONE step forward, the other hesitated, took one step backwards--dominance established. Tyke was the bossiest herd leader I have ever met and I never saw another horse that didn't back down to him.
Reis maintains his ground and insists that the horse moves without smacking a whip aroud all of the time. His methods are easy for me to understand and duplicate.
I have used CA's techniques, but I cherry-pick. I don't think I've ever seen "Tyke" or "Corporal" or "Lawman" (Cup & Cakes) make another horse lunge 5 steps one way and 5 steps another way, back and forth, to establish herd leadership. I did see "Corporal" cow-kick "Prime Time" (TB) when turned our immediately after he saw Prime Time give me some disrespect. In FACT whenever I had a problem horse in (my old) herd, the entire herd would beat that horse up for me.
Still, CA has sound methods. He Lucked into the tie ring, but it makes perfect sense to use it early on yearlings. However, I kinda wonder about a few things.
CA tells stories about how he had problems with his horses growing up that I didn't experience until, again, buying horses in the late 90's.
"I thought that you were lucky if your horse loaded easily in the trailer.", for instance. "Corporal" loaded into my trialer as a 4yo (1986) with a piece of baling twine bc we weren't expecting to buy a horse that day and didn't have a lead rope with us. The ONLY horse that was a trailer problem for us was an old mare that was having sight and other problems. Everybody else did fine. We even (blush) loaded 5-6 horses several times into our 4-horse stock trailer. Our big barrelled, 13'2hh pony, "Toma", would load himself between 2 other horses in the back.
All I had in my arsenal was 3 years of hunt-seat lessons, but I re-trained horses with minimal problems, or retrained Western to English and all to gunfire and close-order drill. I've usual manuals and books and learned by doing. I kinda wonder why CA insists that he needs the advice of others to train his show horses. =/
To ME, you train a good foundation on your horse and the rest is just gravy.
I STILL watch his programs to see if there is anything I haven't thought about. I am learning from Julie Goodnight in her starting a colt series that's on right now.
Parelli's advice sounds workable and then they throw in advice like pumping your legs alternately to get impulsion. I even tried it with my 5yo QH--didn't lighten him up. My spurs did, however, and he remembers. I had always learned to whisper with my calves and use a crop behind my leg if my horse turned off his "hearing." After awhile my lesson horses would see a rider flip their crop up and immediately responded with more energy before the crop was used. You know, they have this "peripheral vision" going on. =b
Sorry for the length. I suggest watching them, but check here to see if anything they say sounds fishy.