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Parelli or Clinton Anderson?

This is a discussion on Parelli or Clinton Anderson? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Clinton anderson signature horse cost
  • Signature horses@downunderhorsemanship

View Poll Results: Parelli or Clinton Anderson
Parelli 9 12.68%
Clinton Anderson 42 59.15%
other (if so comment who) 20 28.17%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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    01-13-2013, 02:53 PM
  #71
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by myhorsesonador    
I don't like either of them, and I'll tell you why. These are my opinions and you don't have to agree with them :)

Who I do like is: Chris Cox, Denis Reis, Craig Camron, and a local trainer here that tought one of his students to ride a wild untouched mustang in 3 hours with just a rope halter, named Tom Olive. (I'm sure he has done it, but the girl that was riding was a friends kid.)
I know this is an old thread, but came across it and had to post. I've had first hand experience and have spent a lot of time in the company of Mr. Tom Olive and sadly, I'd never, ever reccommend anyone that cares about an animal to him. Cruel, browbeating, unusual tactics, non-sensical rambling and somebody that should not be alone in the company of a female are just some of the things I'd say to describe him. I've personally seen him put the stud shank part of the lead rope through a horses' mouth, attach it to the other side of the halter and longe the horse. When the poor animal was too tired to keep it's nose to the center, he'd rip the longe line. After causing both sides of the mouth to literally drip blood, he promptly but a bit in it's mouth, saddled it and rode it for about 3hrs. This is just one of MANY cruel things I've seen out there.

I've spoken to Clint Anderson on the phone when I was interested in buying one of his signature horses. He told me to buy all his dvd's, learn his methods, attend his clinics and he'd consider selling me a horse. I've seen him in person, and again, was not impressed.

I've met PP and while I don't subscribe to his methods, there are some good things in there. You take what works, as with any trainer, and throw away the rest.

I believe a lot of trainers get a bad rap because they attend clinics and send people out there into the equine world to show all that they learned while attending. It's not a clinician's fault if the person attending doesn't either get it, or they misrepresent what was initially taught. So, what we see as either a PP horse, Pony Boy horse that's been "trained" by the owner isn't really accurate of what the outcome would be by the Trainer.

Buck Brennaman sits far and above them all, in my humble opinion. A true horseman, a gentleman and not a person who is a media *****. I respect the heck out of that!!!
Jolly Badger likes this.
     
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    01-14-2013, 07:43 AM
  #72
Foal
I gave so many others a chance over the past 15 years but I study only Clinton Anderson now. I used his methods 5 years ago to Re-Train 2 half Arab Well-Seasoned! Endurance horses that needed attitude adjustments! And then to begin my 2 full Arab youngsters for the trail. Absolutely love Down Under Horsemanship!
reinersue and HorseCrazyTeen like this.
     
    01-14-2013, 04:01 PM
  #73
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Horse    
I've spoken to Clint Anderson on the phone when I was interested in buying one of his signature horses. He told me to buy all his dvd's, learn his methods, attend his clinics and he'd consider selling me a horse. I've seen him in person, and again, was not impressed.
Let me start off by saying that I do not follow Clinton Anderson. However I did find this part of the post rather strange.

Okay so you aren't impressed. Fine and dandy and obviously I have zero problem with that. The other part of your post, I do.

His horses are expensive. For good reason. His horses are trained under his method. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what he is asking. Fact is I find it to be a very smart business decision. If you are buying one of his horses you'd better know how to make them respond. I can see the writing on the wall if he did NOT ask you to do this.

"I bought a horse from Clinton Anderson and it cost me yadayada ... and it's no good because yadayada." See where this is going?
     
    01-14-2013, 04:01 PM
  #74
Foal
Parelli <3
     
    01-15-2013, 09:13 PM
  #75
Foal
What about the greats???? Ray Hunt....and today Buck Brannaman.
     
    01-20-2013, 09:35 AM
  #76
Foal
I would choose Parelli over Anderson. I also love Buck Brannaman and John Lyons.

After watching Anderson abuse and terrorize his horse at Road to the Horse, 2011, I hate his method even more than I already did. What he did to that horse is inexcusable and evil. He never gave that horse a mental break for a second. If he was with the horse, he was yanking, cranking, whipping, jerking, and terrifying the poor thing. It was so miserable to watch, it was like a bad car accident you just can't tear your eyes away from. Yeah he "broke" the horse in two sessions alright. Broke him, as in mentally damaged him. At the end when he did his freestyle and took the bridle off to let the horse gallop, all I saw was a terrified prey animal in full panic mode running for his life. There was absolutely nothing beautiful about a cowboy galloping a horse full out without a bridle. He KNEW that horse had no buck or spook in him . So he KNEW he could gallop him without a bridle and the horse would just follow the rail and the other horse he turned loose in there with it. He took advantage of that poor colt's terror. It was one of the most vile and disgusting things I have ever seen in my life.

Chris Cox and Pat Parelli took a gentler approach, although Cox was still a lot rougher than I cared for.

While Cox and Anderson were busy throwing lariats at their horse and forcing them into a wild gallop around the round pen, Parelli had his horse gently and curiously approaching him at a walk. While the other two horses were lathered in sweat and panting for air, Parelli's horse was just curiously checking out all the stuf, and following Pat around the pen. Yes he was a friendly colt anyway, but Parelli was right when he said that "anybody can drive any horse wild." If Anderson had drawn Parelli's friendly colt Hey Whiskey (Troubador), he would have made him a crazy, tizzed up freak show just like he did the other colt. I watched Anderson tie up a perfectly calm, gentle, friendly little colt to a round pen fence and then proceed to throw plastic bags up in the little colt's face to purposely spook him into pulling back. He was trying to demonstrate how a pulling horse can get hurt by pulling back, so buy my blocker tie ring instead. SERIOULSY. You dim witted moron. You just wrecked a curious, friendly baby horse's mind by tying him solid then forcing him to pull back until he dang near breaks his neck. Awesome training there buddy.
     
    01-20-2013, 10:40 AM
  #77
Banned
This is BBBCrone's husband so bear with my novice opinion. I've watched PP, CA, Buck Brennaman and Chris Cox. Of all of them, I would say Buck is probably my favorite and PP is my least favorite. Buck, CA and Chris all demand the respect/trust of the horse. You WILL do what I ask, your a horse if you don't you can hurt me. Parrelli to me seems more like a dog trainer in the aspect you want to the horse to be a pet. I have yet to see PP take a "hot" horse and be able to train him. I watched Buck and CA take extremely "hot" horses and within a few days have the horses respect/TRUST. Something I don't understand that I've read a few times in this thread is....what is so wrong about a horse sweating? There is nothing wrong with it. Do you not sweat when you work hard? I've watch them all ride and Parrelli struggles in certain areas. Buck, has firm approach yet is very soft spoken but still demands the respect/trust. I don't see the respect of personal space from a Parrelli trained horse that I do from a CA or Buck or Chris Cox trained horse.

From my novice eyes, Buck and CA are the methods I will be using to train Zoot. Along with what BBBCrone knows. A 1/2 Arab 1/2 Paint year and half old gelding. He will learn we are in charge. No physical abuse but a firm, clear, concise instructions and he will be expected to have respect.

As far as the "marketing" aspect. They all sell things, they all want you to use their products. Its call a free market and I cannot fault them. If something will help in training a horse...example from the post above...the tie ring...that will teach the horse not to pull and it makes my job easier...so the horse basically trains himself not to pull why not? As far as using plastic bags to throw up in the horses face its all part of desensitizing/sensitizing. I seriously doubt that he "ruined" that curious, friendly baby." Sounds like you want the "pasture pet" and not a 1200 pound horse that can hurt you or himself if he doesnt have the manners or proper training.
smrobs and FaydesMom like this.
     
    01-20-2013, 10:58 AM
  #78
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBCrone    
...As far as using plastic bags to throw up in the horses face its all part of desensitizing/sensitizing. I seriously doubt that he "ruined" that curious, friendly baby."...
Depends on how it was done. I didn't see it. But from what I've seen with MY horses, I wouldn't consider throwing plastic bags at their heads acceptable training. That doesn't desensitize them in a way that is useful.

As typically used, desensitizing them should mean 'getting them to trust humans'. Someone good at reading horses and knowing when to back off CAN use plastic bags to achieve that end, but it would be very easy to do it in a way that DESTROYS trust.

The trainer I hired DID use plastic bags on the end of a dressage whip to help Mia understand that humans do strange things sometimes, but those strange things wont hurt you. But it was also obvious that if done wrong, it would have taught Mia that humans are psycho-freaks who like to terrorize horses. I consider the ability to read the horse's emotions a critical part of a trainer's skills. Without it, almost any training technique can turn bad fast!

I don't know how Anderson did it since I didn't see it.
     
    01-20-2013, 11:12 AM
  #79
Banned
I didnt see how he did it in reference to Padrona, but I have seen his DVD's where it(the bag) is on the end of his "stick and string" while the horse was tied. I highly doubt CA would "torture" a horse just to prove a point to buy a product. As far as your assessment of desensitizing, I agree...its getting a horse to trust you yet them getting over the fear of things as well. Teaching them everything out there is some big scary monster. The same way I have seen Buck take a "golf flag" and use it as well. We also don't know how "sensitive" Padrona is their description as to what "throwing it in their face to spook" is either.
     
    01-20-2013, 11:32 AM
  #80
Foal
Here in UK we don't have many 'Clinicians' of the type referred to in this thread, very few that would be classed as high profile/high exposure like you do in USA, we tend to have specialists who specialise in the various disciplines eg. Show jumping, eventing, dressage ect.
Very few that actually specialize in foundation and general behaviour problems.
If you can't do it yourself then you take your horse and have it broken/started/trained by someone recommended by friends or by reputation within the field of your chosen sport, then further down the line you would find a trainer and attend (usually private or small groups) lessons, (uk being so small you don't have to travel very far to find someone to teach you and any given discipline)
A lot of children are bought up going to pony club (you own and keep your own pony as opposed to riding schools where you hire ponies) and instructors are available in all discipline for a moderate cost, qualified riding instructors can be found every where!

But to my mind riding and keeping horses is not just about being able to ride well in the show ring or cross country but by being an allround horseman! We are good at getting good riders but not so good at being good horsemen! Sorry to be going on a bit

Monty Roberts was about the first Natural Horseman to come to UK in the 90's and for me was the first time I was exposed to new ideas and made me think outside the box of traditional British horsemanship.
Enter Natural Horsemanship! (40 years both professional and private horse ownership) but it was not until 2008 that I attended a Parelli celebration in UK that I had my mind blown away at the depth/feel/and understanding that could be achieved when NH methods were used with knowledge and love.
I have followed the Parelli program for the last 4 years and wished with all my heart that I had had exposure to NH all those years ago.
Since learning Parelli I have not closed my eyes to other NH clinicians and have sort them out when ever possible.

On TV I can now see many of the clinicians that you get in USA ; Chris Cox, Craig Cameron, Clinton Anderson, Buck Brennaman and many others. I have also watched live the last 'Road to the Horse' and I must say that I was disgusted at the way Clinton acted towards both his horse and to fellow contestants (yes I know he won it years ago) he was so direct line wanting to win he had no feel, timing or care for that horse he just wanted the job done, ok you might think he got the job done but at what cost to that horses future? I think he deserved to come last!!

I don't think of it as to whom I would chose to teach me it is more of who my horses would choose to teach them that counts!! I would safely leaving any of my seven horses (by the way none of them have behaviour or attitude problems) with; Pat Parelli, Buck Brennaman, Dave Stuart (who I have attended clinics here in UK with) and the late James Roberts who was UK's own Natural Horsemanship clinician and my mentor for the last 2.5 years. But never Clinton, he still has too big an ego for my liking, lets hope he matures and looks back and uses all he knows with more feel, timing and compassion for the horse, then I think I might look again at what he has to say.

So don't ask who you would like but who your horse would chose!!
     

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