Parelli or Clinton Anderson? - Page 9

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Parelli or Clinton Anderson?

This is a discussion on Parelli or Clinton Anderson? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Clinton anderson feeding program
  • Chris cox desensitizing horses

View Poll Results: Parelli or Clinton Anderson
Parelli 9 12.68%
Clinton Anderson 42 59.15%
other (if so comment who) 20 28.17%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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    01-20-2013, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by BBBCrone    
This is BBBCrone's husband so bear with my novice opinion. I've watched PP, CA, Buck Brennaman and Chris Cox. Of all of them, I would say Buck is probably my favorite and PP is my least favorite. Buck, CA and Chris all demand the respect/trust of the horse. You WILL do what I ask, your a horse if you don't you can hurt me. Parrelli to me seems more like a dog trainer in the aspect you want to the horse to be a pet. I have yet to see PP take a "hot" horse and be able to train him. I watched Buck and CA take extremely "hot" horses and within a few days have the horses respect/TRUST. Something I don't understand that I've read a few times in this thread is....what is so wrong about a horse sweating? There is nothing wrong with it. Do you not sweat when you work hard? I've watch them all ride and Parrelli struggles in certain areas. Buck, has firm approach yet is very soft spoken but still demands the respect/trust. I don't see the respect of personal space from a Parrelli trained horse that I do from a CA or Buck or Chris Cox trained horse.

From my novice eyes, Buck and CA are the methods I will be using to train Zoot. Along with what BBBCrone knows. A 1/2 Arab 1/2 Paint year and half old gelding. He will learn we are in charge. No physical abuse but a firm, clear, concise instructions and he will be expected to have respect.

As far as the "marketing" aspect. They all sell things, they all want you to use their products. Its call a free market and I cannot fault them. If something will help in training a horse...example from the post above...the tie ring...that will teach the horse not to pull and it makes my job the horse basically trains himself not to pull why not? As far as using plastic bags to throw up in the horses face its all part of desensitizing/sensitizing. I seriously doubt that he "ruined" that curious, friendly baby." Sounds like you want the "pasture pet" and not a 1200 pound horse that can hurt you or himself if he doesnt have the manners or proper training.
Well I have to say that you're wrong about Parelli not being able to train a HOT a horse. I have a super hot, high strung Arabian that gets wrung out on adrenaline and has great days but horrible days too. I tried all types of trainers, methods, supplements, feeding programs. I did use a Clinton Anderson trainer and he ran her in a round pen for hours until she was lathered in sweat, and he got NOWHERE with her. Absolutely flat NOWHERE. Dressage lessons, trail rides, endurance rides, shows, we've done lot without really accomplishing anything actually.

Completely exhausted with this horse an with her hot, spooky nature, I hauled 16 hours one way for Pat Parelli to work with her for about 2 hours and she was a totally different horse. She was so ****ed strung out on adrenaline, she ran the fence for 30 minutes, barely even acknowledging Pat existed. She was twisting her head like a crazy psycho and would NOT settle down. He kept commenting how extreme she is.

Normally he would work with a horse about 1 - 1/12 hours and then give them back to the owner after the transformation took place, but she was so hot and so difficult, he left the coliseum and worked her in the barn one on one with me and without the crowd. He did not feel she was at a good stopping point in the coliseum. I was so happy he put the horse first and did what was right by her, and me.

TODAY, she is a different horse ENTIRELY. I have used his program to get through to this mare and change her once and for all. I started her over completely from scratch at the friendly game and have been building my way up. I am now riding her bareback in a halter, or bridle, and she is doing awesome. Instead of getting strung out on adrenaline and not allowing anyone to control her feet, she is a very happy partner. I am literally thrilled every day to go out there and work and ride her whereas before I would just get frustrated and want to cry many times.

I have to disagree with you very strongly because the #1 complaint I have about my mare is how HOT she is. She is a halter bred Arabian and is prone to be a drama queen and be very difficult to handle at times. At other times she would be a puppy dog a kid could ride bareback, but if the sitaution was right, she would get very hot and spooky.

Pat nailed it down for me that the horse isn't afraid of objects. She is afraid of a human controlling her feet while she is high on adrenaline. WOW. He summed up her whole life 5 minutes after meeting her. All these years I have tried to desensitize her to STUFF. I have tried to teach her how to spook in place, etc. but it had nothing to do with the spooking. She's an adrenaline junky that gets an endorphin rush off the adrenaline release. He showed me how to control her movement and get her down OFF the adrenaline, and then further, how to never let her go to that place of adrenaline in the first place.

All my friends I ride and compete with know how difficult this horse is. She can be awesome one day but a dragon the next day. The horse that Pat Parelli worked with was the dragon. But he got through to her, and he made a transformation in her, and in me, that I can't describe.

She is also an extremely dominant, opinionated mare who has no problem kicking or running you down if she feels she needs to get on top of the human.

I have had LITERALLY ZERO PROBLEMS since we got back home from the tour stop.

Pat had his hands full with this one. There were times I was actually afraid I owned the horse that would break Pat Parelli. I sat in the stands with my hand over my mouth half the time. I was horrified, embarassed, and scared for Pat. My horse was all the talk on the Parelli forums for weeks after the event. Everybody wanted to know more about her, know her history. They were so supportive and offered advice freely.

I just got in from outside working with my mare this morning. Everything I do with her now, is with a smile on my face. She is very respectful, attentive, and she tries every time. We don't fight like we used to, although I am asking exponentially more of her than I ever have before.

So I don't mind defending the Parelli program because I have seen firsthand what it can do for a REALLY difficult horse.
jackiepentrecoed likes this.
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    01-20-2013, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by bsms    
Depends on how it was done. I didn't see it. But from what I've seen with MY horses, I wouldn't consider throwing plastic bags at their heads acceptable training. That doesn't desensitize them in a way that is useful.

As typically used, desensitizing them should mean 'getting them to trust humans'. Someone good at reading horses and knowing when to back off CAN use plastic bags to achieve that end, but it would be very easy to do it in a way that DESTROYS trust.

The trainer I hired DID use plastic bags on the end of a dressage whip to help Mia understand that humans do strange things sometimes, but those strange things wont hurt you. But it was also obvious that if done wrong, it would have taught Mia that humans are psycho-freaks who like to terrorize horses. I consider the ability to read the horse's emotions a critical part of a trainer's skills. Without it, almost any training technique can turn bad fast!

I don't know how Anderson did it since I didn't see it.
I agree with Chris Cox who says he hates the term desensitization, and a horse should never be desensitized. But I get what you're saying. I expose my horses to as much stuff as I can. I haul out to ride a lot, I work with my horses every day, and I dont' just want pasture pets, as someone here accused me of. I want good, all around, WORKING horses.

But what Clinton Anderson did was take a yearling colt, tie him hard to a solid wood round pen fence, and then purpose jump at the horse's face with plastic bags in his hand to force the horse into a pull-back panic. He was demonstrating how hard a horse fights a hard tie. Then he attached the horse to a blocker tie ring (that he sells) and did the same spooking with the bags. The horse pulled back but the rope slid through the ring.

I thought it was awful how he purposely taught that horse to pull back just to market his prodct.
    01-20-2013, 12:09 PM
Sounds like you just didnt understand CA, he certainly doesnt want you to teach your horse to spook in place !
    01-20-2013, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
sounds like you just didnt understand CA, he certainly doesnt want you to teach your horse to spook in place !
I have no use for Anderson or his abuse and torture of horses. So I would have no idea what he teaches or doesn't teach, and don't have any interest in knowing. I prefer a kinder, gentler approach.
    01-20-2013, 12:16 PM
Excellent post Padrona and not because you support Parelli NH but because you had the heart and desire to seek out help for your horse and got it, and you both came away with knowledge and understanding from the horses point of view, when we can understand it from the horses point of view we can then help them but without that we will never help them through whatever is making them hot/aggressive/spooky/shy.
I know when I see a good horseman when I see one and having a good rapport with a horse dose not mean it is a pet.
Dame Nuit likes this.
    01-20-2013, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by gypsygirl    
sounds like you just didnt understand CA, he certainly doesnt want you to teach your horse to spook in place !
Where I live, spook in place means the horse's first reaction to something scary is to wait for the rider to decide what to do. It means 'stand still and listen to your rider instead of run mindlessly away'. It isn't a bad thing at all...

I LIKE horses that spook in place.
smrobs, Dark Horse and FaydesMom like this.
    01-20-2013, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Padrona    
I have no use for Anderson or his abuse and torture of horses. So I would have no idea what he teaches or doesn't teach, and don't have any interest in knowing. I prefer a kinder, gentler approach.
i guess im not understanding. So you had an idiot who called themself a CA trainer run your horse around and now CA is abusive and tortures horses ? I guess I don't see the correlation ?
    01-20-2013, 12:39 PM
I would like to ask any Clinton Anderson supporter if they were proud of his performance at the 2011 RTTH? And would you have liked that to have been your horse?
    01-20-2013, 12:42 PM
Clinton Anderson.

If Parelli people aren't calling this abuse

Then Clinton's is no where near abuse.

I also do not like that way that Pat says 'my way or the high way'. Very arrogant, I will never follow a person like that.

I have heard many things and his way is very 'fluffy' and unrealistic.

He has stated before, that you can be 'one' with your horse. There shouldn't be a leader in the relationship, etc. and that you and your horse should be on the same level. Which is flat-out bogus. If you look at a heard of horses in the pasture or the wild there is no such thing as horses 'being one'. There is always a alpha horse, and then a less-dominant horse. No such thing as 'one' in the world of the horse. If your not going to be the leader then the horse will be.

I've also been told by a Pat Parelli guy that if your horse bites you, ignore it or give him a carrot. He was serious. I just looked at him like, "Are you for real?"

Anyways I've seen many horses through the Parelli program. None of them came up normal, to say the most. A friend did the Parelli program and she told me that she saw no improvement in her horses, and if anything they got even worse and bored.

Parelli, IMO, uses unrealistic approaches to horses. His arrogance turns me the other way, and all the Parelli horses I've seen are bad. He's simply not my cup of tea.

Clinton on the other hand is what I like. I've seen many Clinton horses, and they're just fabulous. All are quiet, calm, etc. They're great horses. Better than what I've seen Parelli do.

And if I'm correct I believe that Clinton was one of Parelli's students at one point..

But other than Clinton I really like Larry Trocha and John Lyons and Buck Brannaman.
smrobs likes this.
    01-20-2013, 12:46 PM
Pssh. None of them. The problem with these trainers in the micro-analyzation of every move the horse makes. I have encountered both PP and CA trained horses. I've had a few that I restarted to make bridle horses, and the first and foremost thing is I had to let them air out and be a horse again. Some horses this took almost a year. And when they came to me, they didn't enjoy being messed with. They would pin their years when you approached them. And only because they were so annoyed with all their previous training. I just let them be horses again I dropped all of the countless hours of lunging, brought them back to the basics, treated them like unbroken colts. I let them make mistakes at first. Now they are some very nice spade bridle horses. My favorite publiic trainer is The late Bill Dorrance. As far as PP and CA. I'm out!
smrobs and Ian McDonald like this.

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