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Parelli Horsenalities

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    11-30-2012, 12:50 PM
  #51
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
Oldhorselady What you are saying actually makes a lot of sense though it might not be obvious to some people. What it almost comes down to is 'You either have it or you dont'
Some people could read all the books, watch all the videos and get all the right hands on training and they would never 'have it' while others with no real help at all will take on an animal they have no real experience with and somehow make a success of it
I'm not sure how much of it is plain common sense and how much is the natural ability to read animals and see things in them that you will also see in children or dogs
Too many people think that a problem horse can be cured with aggression and too many people think it can be done with unlimited treats and a lot totally underestimate the horses ability to 'play you'
THANK YOU...exactly!!!!!! Well said.
     
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    11-30-2012, 02:03 PM
  #52
Trained
I think some people are natural, and some definitely are not. I think most of us are in between. I have no natural ability to read a horse, but I can do so far better now than I could 4 years ago. But my reading is limited. After 4 years and uncounted hours with Mia, she & I get along fairly well. I can usually read Trooper all right, and most strange horses I meet seem to accept me fairly quick as someone of good intentions, at least.

However, there are problem horses who would be way outside my experience. There are horses who could deceive me, because I wouldn't catch their signals. And there is no way I would attempt to do any serious training, apart from the sort of training we all do every time we ride. I have a long way to go before it will be "instinctive enough" for me to be good with an average horse.

Some horses are pretty straightforward. Some are not. Mia is complex, but it is worth noting that I rode her for 2 years as a total beginner, PRIOR to her ever learning about yielding to pressure, standard bit & leg cues, etc. As the trainer put it a couple of weeks after she concluded Mia had never been trained, or had very minimal training a long time ago: the good news was that meant she had uncommonly good intentions, while the bad news was her real training was starting at 11 years old. But she tried to make it work for 2 years even though she didn't understand. Like a lot of horses, she is a very forgiving creature who wants to get along. That saves a lot of us from ourselves...
     
    11-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #53
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
..... What it almost comes down to is 'You either have it or you dont'
Some people could read all the books, watch all the videos and get all the right hands on training and they would never 'have it' while others with no real help at all will take on an animal they have no real experience with and somehow make a success of it
I'm not sure how much of it is plain common sense and how much is the natural ability to read animals and see things in them that you will also see in children or dogs......
You hit it exactly, and it’s what I alluded to in my post about common sense and the lack of I see too much these days.

I was raised around horses and all manner of animals and seemed to have an innate sense to read them. I understood all kinds of herd/species dynamics from a very young age, and the approach/retreat ideas as well as the drive forward/turn away by simply choosing to apply pressure in front of/behind the shoulder. This works for most herd and prey animals and isn’t unique to horses or the trainers who teach it.
No one ever had to explain these things to me, or the fight/flight type of thinking as well as the zones of comfortableness in prey animals. Making the right thing comfortable and the wrong thing uncomfortable works as a training tool with many animals.
Anyone ever heard of halter breaking a calf by tying it to a donkey? Calf will learn very quickly to give to the pressure and follow the donkey because the donkey is going to go where it wants to go regardless of having to drag a calf along or not.
Years ago this was a very common way to halter break nearly any animal with hooves and it worked. (Not saying it was nice, just that many people used the concept.)

So, after riding and working with animals for 25 years, I had to move to and work in the city. The ability to read most animals did get a little rusty, but after returning to having a farm it came back nicely. I did not, however, ever have the ability to read kids… that’s for sure! LOL And I’m still allergic to all of them except my own.

Seeing what some of these trainers/human coaches are doing mostly makes me grin because yes, these ideas have been around for ages. But I wouldn’t say it is the experienced people that are the anti’s.....we are just the ones kicking ourselves because we didn’t think to market the stuff and get rich like they did.

Anyway, unfortunately a friend of mine doesn’t have “it” and never will. She has done the trainer in a box thing, was able to get her horse to back up by wiggling a rope, and produce some ok ground manners, but she never understood what she was doing/asking of the horse or why. She never understood the way horses think or why they do what they do.
She has also had farm animals of all kinds for many many years and is no closer to understanding any of them.
I’ve unfortunately had to help her way too much and know this first hand. She can fake it a little when an animal is standing still and being good (any animal) but beyond that, she is the one who is mentally going… “Ok, the trainer said do “xyz” and animal will do “abc“ but it isn‘t working….I have no idea what to do now!!??”

I do believe her lack of ability to read and understand the basic concept of horses is what led to her terrible wreck of a riding accident that changed her life (before I knew her.)
So yes, there is a flip side as mentioned above that some people will think their abilities are far greater than they really are, which obviously can be dangerous.
     
    11-30-2012, 04:08 PM
  #54
Started
I think my situation was founded by luck. I was forced into the situation, not knowing it would work. But had to try.

There are also trainers, with the gimmicks included, who look like they don't get it....despite their proclaimed knowledge.
     
    11-30-2012, 05:23 PM
  #55
Super Moderator
I think I've got at least some natural feel in me, but I'm hesitant to call it a gift or anything of the kind. I'm still learning and I always will be, and some amount of talent should not stop me from gaining all the experience I can get. I know just one thing - calming down flighty horses and speeding up the lazy ones comes easy to me, but that should never make me thinking that I can find my way with ANY horse I meet. They are all so different and I think every person should regard a horse just as a slightly different equivalent to himself, and thus be open to anything that he horse has to offer.
     
    11-30-2012, 05:26 PM
  #56
Super Moderator
I have all respect for people like bsms and others who are open to admit they are a bit 'lost' - happens to everyone after all - but they seek out someone to hands on help them instead of relying so much on Youtube videos and Trainers with good marketing skills. You can master the basics to a certain extent but having someone on the ground that can point out your faults and also show you how it should be done with your horse makes a huge difference
A lot of people do over react to things - horses are big powerful animals so easily done and calling bluff when you arent sure if that's the right thing to do is very daunting so you tread that fine line between going in all guns ablazing or letting them intimidate you. Trouble is no one that's not there with you reading that horse can actually give you safe advice which I suppose takes it back to trying to buy the 'right' horse in the first place and avoiding complications
The sort of people that really annoy me are the ones who have only had really nice well behaved well trained schoolmasters and assume that somehow makes them an expert with a right to judge others
bsms, Lockwood and Oldhorselady like this.
     
    11-30-2012, 05:37 PM
  #57
Trained
Idk...i agree with what you guys are saying about people who know nothing and want a trainer in a box AND people who have been around horses forever and don't need that kind of help. But all I can think is that most of the horse people I know are somewhere in between, so doesnt this sort of thing help them a lot ?

Just thinking out loud...
     
    11-30-2012, 05:46 PM
  #58
Super Moderator
You can be around horses forever and still not have a clue so anything that makes people see horses as individuals - all different has to help.
Too many narrow minded/one size fits all philosophies out there
And if I don't do some ironing I will run out of clothes soon
Lockwood and Oldhorselady like this.
     
    11-30-2012, 06:00 PM
  #59
Trained
How much it helps depends on the person knowing how much he has or has not learned. When I first got started in horses, Statelinetack had a bunch of free videos by Chris Irwin. Those videos were of enormous help to me, but they didn't pretend to make you a horse trainer. They just helped you with things like: how to best approach a horse, how to lead a horse, how a horse interprets and expresses aggression, how to handle a horse so the horse won't feel bullied, etc. They were great for teaching me why my horses sometimes acted irritated or nervous around me, and how I could make them feel comfortable.

What worries me is when I see videos like "How to start a colt!" Frankly, if you think you need to see a 30 minute video on how to start a colt, you shouldn't buy a colt and try to start him. If you are just looking to expand your horizons, it is fine. But you cannot learn how to train a problem horse from a video.

Mia doesn't have a malicious bone in her body, but she has enough inner demons of fear and a big lack of confidence that she can be challenging for someone like me to ride. But in today's market, there was no one with experience who would have bought her (or taken her in) for the pleasure of training her and selling her, because the end result wouldn't have enough value to pay for her training. So it was to the auction with her, or up to me to find help and try to work thru things with her. She has been a great horse for me, because she motivated me to learn and she pushes my envelope darn near every ride. But she has been a horrible horse for me, because I've never known what it is like to relax on a horse. Every ride is an adventure, but sometimes I don't want adventure. Boring would be nice, once in a while!

I honestly think Mia is at the upper limit for someone like me to ever work with. She was way beyond my limit for knowing how to train her. Even with watching a trainer work several horses, and hours of videos, and books, and advice - those aren't a substitute for 20 years with horses, or for an innate understanding of them. And Mia is, to her credit, a sweetheart. After 4+ years with her, I feel comfortable saying she would never intentionally hurt me...but I can still feel stiffness and a bit of soreness in my lower right back, where she unintentionally hurt me 4 years ago in January.

I think the video trainers provide a valuable service to someone who is willing to admit they also need a human to help them. I think they ruin some horses by giving people the belief that they know how to train a horse even tho they are barely competent enough to lead one on a lead line...

I guess, in the end, for some people, there is no cure for stupid.
Lockwood, Oldhorselady and jaydee like this.
     
    11-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #60
Foal
This has been an interesting thread. I don't know much about the Parellis, but I do remember reading an article in one of the magazines quite a while ago about "horsenalities" and left brain right brain stuff. I didn't pay alot of attention to it, but I do know every horse is different and you can't treat them all the same. I think most anyone can get enough knowledge to work with a horse from a DVD or whatever, but I think what the best trainers I've seen have, that you can't learn from watching a show, are wisdom and an appropriate temperament. This thread seems to elude to both.
     

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