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Parelli Horsenalities

This is a discussion on Parelli Horsenalities within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • What bloodlines does parelli's horses have
  • What horsenality is the alpha mare usually

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    11-30-2012, 06:11 PM
  #61
Showing
From observation, the "horsenalities" has created a lot of confusion. Klaus Ferdinand has a few videos on youtube that better describe horses by common traits and has given these a name for easy reference. I read all that stuff and am glad I didn't get caught up in it as the focus would switch from doing something with the horse to worrying too much about whether it's right or wrong. Do you know why a horse will bond with a person? Because he doesn't know he's a horse. He has no knowledge of what he looks like and can only go by what his mother looks like when he is born.
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    11-30-2012, 06:19 PM
  #62
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
How much it helps depends on the person knowing how much he has or has not learned. When I first got started in horses, Statelinetack had a bunch of free videos by Chris Irwin. Those videos were of enormous help to me, but they didn't pretend to make you a horse trainer. They just helped you with things like: how to best approach a horse, how to lead a horse, how a horse interprets and expresses aggression, how to handle a horse so the horse won't feel bullied, etc. They were great for teaching me why my horses sometimes acted irritated or nervous around me, and how I could make them feel comfortable.

What worries me is when I see videos like "How to start a colt!" Frankly, if you think you need to see a 30 minute video on how to start a colt, you shouldn't buy a colt and try to start him. If you are just looking to expand your horizons, it is fine. But you cannot learn how to train a problem horse from a video.

Mia doesn't have a malicious bone in her body, but she has enough inner demons of fear and a big lack of confidence that she can be challenging for someone like me to ride. But in today's market, there was no one with experience who would have bought her (or taken her in) for the pleasure of training her and selling her, because the end result wouldn't have enough value to pay for her training. So it was to the auction with her, or up to me to find help and try to work thru things with her. She has been a great horse for me, because she motivated me to learn and she pushes my envelope darn near every ride. But she has been a horrible horse for me, because I've never known what it is like to relax on a horse. Every ride is an adventure, but sometimes I don't want adventure. Boring would be nice, once in a while!

I honestly think Mia is at the upper limit for someone like me to ever work with. She was way beyond my limit for knowing how to train her. Even with watching a trainer work several horses, and hours of videos, and books, and advice - those aren't a substitute for 20 years with horses, or for an innate understanding of them. And Mia is, to her credit, a sweetheart. After 4+ years with her, I feel comfortable saying she would never intentionally hurt me...but I can still feel stiffness and a bit of soreness in my lower right back, where she unintentionally hurt me 4 years ago in January.

I think the video trainers provide a valuable service to someone who is willing to admit they also need a human to help them. I think they ruin some horses by giving people the belief that they know how to train a horse even tho they are barely competent enough to lead one on a lead line...

I guess, in the end, for some people, there is no cure for stupid.
We seem to be singing from the same sheet on this one anyway!!!
I cringe when I hear someone say that they have learnt how to catch, lead, groom and tack up etc all thanks to one youtube video trainer (Trainer in the loosest possible sense of the word). All I can say is they're really lucky that they bought a good obliging horse that someone else had put a lot of effort into because really these are things that you need to know before you buy a horse - and then they move on to a challenging one and most often disaster strikes
These are the same people who will tell you if things don't work out that its your fault - that you got it wrong - when in reality its often you are just too far out of your comfort zone or the horse is just too much for you. Some things you can put right and some you cant
I got a horse about 8 years ago that had been point to pointed but not fast enough and the seller thought he might make a nice one day eventer.
I loved that horse from day 1, he was perfect on the roads, he came on really well in his dressage and showjumping but the moment his feet touched an open stretch of grass he was gone. I did a few terrifying cross country courses on him - he never hit anything but I felt so out of control over things that weren't going to easily fall down I knew I was out of my strength zone even in the strongest bit. I had him for a while with a rider who competes at the Badminton level and she said he seriously scared her too so as most of our local rides involved going over fields I decided to let him go - to a 6ft 2 196lb man who hunted him no trouble. He just had more weight behind the bit than I ever could
Could be you need a more solid reliable horse bsms that will give you confidence and show you how to relax and enjoy riding more? I wouldnt like to suggest that at the expense of anything bad happening to Mia though - maybe a second horse?
     
    11-30-2012, 06:36 PM
  #63
Super Moderator
So, if horses can be classed as left or right brained, introvert or extrovert how can it be explained that a horse ridden by one rider goes brilliantly, is brave, never spooks, jumps anything first or last, bomb proof in traffic and good to do anything with, yet, with another rider who is more experienced becomes a nervous wreck and does nothing correctly?
Two totally different personalities but the same horse in the same environment.

That same mare was always the last to go to the feed in the field, she would have all foals following her within minutes of being out with them, she would allow them to feed from her bowl.

Anyone who knows horses would say that because she was the last to the feed bowls she was lowest in pecking order yet nothing would ever try to drive her away from it and occasionally the mare that looked boss must have annoyed her because she would just keep driving that boss mare away from every bowl she went to. No threatening with ears back and teeth or heels, she would just walk towards the bowl and the boss mare would move.

So, what personality would she have been?
     
    11-30-2012, 07:13 PM
  #64
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
...Could be you need a more solid reliable horse bsms that will give you confidence and show you how to relax and enjoy riding more? I wouldnt like to suggest that at the expense of anything bad happening to Mia though - maybe a second horse?


Off topic, but...my wife and I have talked about it. Trooper is a good horse, but he's ridden by the females and he honestly likes females. He tolerates me, but the hard use he saw when loaned to a ranch seems to have soured him on guys. Mia, incidentally, adores guys. She darn near tries to climb into our farriers lap while he trims the other horses.

Cowboy is a good little trail horse, but at 13 hands and maybe 650 lbs, I'm a burden to him. He may end up being more pet than riding horse, or get used a year from now when our granddaughter is old enough. I may talk to the trainer who did so much for us, and ask her to keep her ears open for a good trail horse. It would improve my riding, and that in turn would be good for Mia as well. I can't really imagine ever selling Mia. I don't know anyone who wants her, for one thing, and she tries very hard...just too much imagination!

OK - back to Parelli, video trainers and horse personalities!
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    11-30-2012, 07:14 PM
  #65
Weanling
In my experience, horses of any horsenality type can be herd leaders, though confident calm (Left Brained on the PP chart) are a bit more likely to be the heard leaders because they are not as intimidated by other horses, but that is not always the case.

There seems to be some confusion about what Horsenality is. It is NOT meant to classify every reaction of a single horse, it is just a general statement of how a horse USUALLY behaves, and how it should USUALLY be trained. Outside stimuli, including the changing of a rider can greatly effect a horses usual behavior patterns.

As an example, my grandfather was a calm good natured man who was reserved and not given to expressing his emotions publicly, but he cried like a baby when he seen my brother born. My mother is out going, generous and kind, but when she gets around my sister in law, she becomes quiet and snarky when she does talk.

In the same way, when we label a horse to a certain Horsenality, we are not making a hard and fast decision about how we expect our horse to act all the time. A horse's Horsenality can also be shaped by experiences and training, horses can be made either more confident or more fearful. They can also be taught to enjoy moving forward, or discouraged from moving as much, all in how they are trained and ridden.

Horsenality type just states how a horse innately will most likely react the majority of the time. It is meant simply as a starting point for outlining your training program, knowing both your horse's likely strengths and weaknesses so the horse can be benefited.
Lockwood likes this.
     
    11-30-2012, 08:31 PM
  #66
Foal
I think parelli went too far with charts and categories for marketing sake, but the information is good. Horses have different personalities and varying degrees of spirit. Based on the type of personality an individual horse has, he/she will respond accordingly to certain situations, training techniques, and types of activities. This may seem like common sense to many, but sometimes it helps to have information pounded in basic kindergarten language for some people to fully mentally process.

Many horse buyers do not assess a horse's personality. They do not ask themselves if their wants and skill set match that horse. Often they find themselves in over their head with a horse or view their horse negatively. And way too often I hear a story about a horse being sold to someone more suited to handling that horse. At least parelli is trying to get people to understand horses better and show his students how to adjust training techniques so that the ownership turn-over is not so bad. My arab (with excellent bloodlines/conformation/health) came to me over a decade ago as a 14yo, abandoned by his 5th owner. He is a great horse that was very misunderstood. Parelli gave me the knowledge and tools to develop a wonderful lifetime partner. So... even with my distaste for the marketing, if parelli helps people find lifetime relationships with their horses, that's awesome.

And to answer the question about why a horse acts differently depending on who is handling him... as I posted before, a key element to a horse's personality is learned behavior. A horse learns quickly that not all humans are created equal and will adjust/modify its personality accordingly.
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    12-01-2012, 12:27 AM
  #67
Started
Subbing, because it's my bedtime and I want to read this tomorrow
     
    12-01-2012, 03:56 PM
  #68
Weanling
This is a little off topic, but I wanted to speak up. Many here have said that you can't really learn horsemanship from "a trainer in a box", in some ways I agree, you have to get out, use some trial/error and common sense.

BUT for me videos have been a lifesaver! I have learned everything I know about training, from books and videos, I have never had a personal "mentor" and only have been able to afford one live lesson with a professional trainer. While I know I still have holes in my horsemanship, and riding abilities, I also know what those flaws are and I have strategies for working on them. Because of Parelli, Lyons, Hempfling,and other trainers who try to put their thought down in simple terms, I continue to make progress, in training my horses and myself.
     
    12-01-2012, 04:18 PM
  #69
Weanling
I honestly think that it is a no brainer that different horses need different training methods. If you have 10 horses, chances are they aren't all going to fit one rug, so why should training methods be any different?

In my experience some people need this kind of guidance to help them work with their horse, which I have no problem with, it's when people spout "OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER YOU HAVE TO USE THIS AND IF YOU DON'T YOU DON'T LOVE YOUR HORSE"*

Good horsemanship comes from common sense, not from books and videos. Books and videos can help, but in reality they aren't going to solve all your problems, you need to have the right mindset to see this is what X person does with X horse and it works, my horse is similar to that horse, maybe it will work for me too, person goes out and tries it, if it works good they continue with that method, if it doesn't, well back to the drawing board. But in the end that's still common sense.



*Note, none of this has been said here, but I have seen it.
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    12-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #70
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhunter    
So, if horses can be classed as left or right brained, introvert or extrovert how can it be explained that a horse ridden by one rider goes brilliantly, is brave, never spooks, jumps anything first or last, bomb proof in traffic and good to do anything with, yet, with another rider who is more experienced becomes a nervous wreck and does nothing correctly?
Two totally different personalities but the same horse in the same environment.

That same mare was always the last to go to the feed in the field, she would have all foals following her within minutes of being out with them, she would allow them to feed from her bowl.

Anyone who knows horses would say that because she was the last to the feed bowls she was lowest in pecking order yet nothing would ever try to drive her away from it and occasionally the mare that looked boss must have annoyed her because she would just keep driving that boss mare away from every bowl she went to. No threatening with ears back and teeth or heels, she would just walk towards the bowl and the boss mare would move.

So, what personality would she have been?
that's not unlike Mark Rashids view on is the Alpha mare actually a leader and why its probably not a good idea to liken ourselves to an alpha mare in the eay we treat horses
Our ID apperars to be at the bottom of the heap, she happily stands back and allows the others to take first pick but if she wants to be first she just walks calmly through and they all stand back - no threatening at all. If anythings going on in the field that disturbs them she is the one they all follow and lean on for guidance.
Our clyde cross is your typical alpha - appears dominant, something of a bully who will try to force the others into whatever she wants but no one follows her, they mostly will keep a distance from her
Out riding the ID will always attack the spooky thing head on regardless of rider but actually prefers a quieter non aggressive rider as she dislikes too much confrontational pressure but the clyde cross totally relies on a confident rider to lean on and responds better to a stronger experienced rider
He calls it passive dominant
     

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