Pat or Clint - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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thank you nokota
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post #22 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
See that is the problem. You should not need your hands to get a horse to stop.

As for the other part. Ya? Not sure how big a deal that is. It is what you do with the horse while doing all that.

This is the way I look at it. Riding with out a saddle or bridle is basically the end result of good training if you put that into actually doing something past loping around. IE what Stacy did. Past that it is nothing more then trick riding. Same as you would see in the circus.
I totally agree!! I was watching a PP video the other night, just to see if maybe the guy had at least something to offer. It remeinded me of the Shriner's circus we used to go to as kids. And thats it. I never really saw any true, working, practical horsemanship in there...
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #23 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gypsygirl View Post
the way i see it is that we all use are horses for different things, we also all learn differently. just because you dont like a particular method does not mean it doesnt work for someone else, or it wont help someone else. i really like CA, but i dont 'follow' him exclusively bc i event, he obviously does not ! that doesnt mean i havent learned anything from him, but he cant teach me everything.

luckily there is more than one trainer in the world and we can pick who we want to follow.
I agree with you there. But I feel like Pat is kind of being picked on here, for something that doesn't really have anything to do with training a horse.. Who cares how he ssits? There's obviously a reason for it. He used to ride broncs for a living at one point, so maybe he's got a past injury that we don't know about. I have a biography book on him as well, and can say that all throughout the book they only talked about one injury... Where he got all the skin nearly ripped off his thumb, that's it

"It is the difficult horses that have the most to teach you" - Double Dan Horsemanship
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post #24 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven View Post
I agree with you there. But I feel like Pat is kind of being picked on here, for something that doesn't really have anything to do with training a horse.. Who cares how he ssits? There's obviously a reason for it. He used to ride broncs for a living at one point, so maybe he's got a past injury that we don't know about. I have a biography book on him as well, and can say that all throughout the book they only talked about one injury... Where he got all the skin nearly ripped off his thumb, that's it
So does that injury to his thumb make it ok for him to yank on his horses mouths? I've almost lost fingers in dallies and I don't plow around on my horses face. And the way you sit has A LOT to do with horse training, a bad seat can really screw up a horses response to cues. If you ask me, or any other trainer worth a lick, your seat and hands has everything to do with training a responsive horse....

~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #25 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
So does that injury to his thumb make it ok for him to yank on his horses mouths? I've almost lost fingers in dallies and I don't plow around on my horses face. And the way you sit has A LOT to do with horse training, a bad seat can really screw up a horses response to cues. If you ask me, or any other trainer worth a lick, your seat and hands has everything to do with training a responsive horse....
I've watched countless videos of him working with horses. He doesn't 'plow around' on their mouths, he is just firm when teaching. If you try to turn a horse that doesn't want to, you go 'pop, pop, pop, POP' on the reins, it's not the same as jerking a horse, but it teaches him 'oh i better turn when she asks me to so i don't get popped again'. I've done it, it's one of the first steps and easiest ways to create a better more responsive horse. Ok I'm just gunna go, I got stuff to do. No point in trying to explain things I actually know about if people aren't going to listen

"It is the difficult horses that have the most to teach you" - Double Dan Horsemanship
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post #26 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 05:03 PM
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Nope, watch this video and tell me he isn't plowing on e reins.. Way too much contact for a western horse in a curb bit... And this is supposed to be a finished horse! The guy can't ride..

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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #27 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
Nope, watch this video and tell me he isn't plowing on e reins.. Way too much contact for a western horse in a curb bit... And this is supposed to be a finished horse! The guy can't ride..

Pat Parelli and Magic - YouTube
You beat me too it. I was just going to post this one.

Got to love how much he is pulling on the horses mouth how little his hands move when needed and how he pulls the horse round in the turns. Which by the way are NOT CORRECT at all.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #28 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven View Post
I've watched countless videos of him working with horses. He doesn't 'plow around' on their mouths, he is just firm when teaching. If you try to turn a horse that doesn't want to, you go 'pop, pop, pop, POP' on the reins, it's not the same as jerking a horse, but it teaches him 'oh i better turn when she asks me to so i don't get popped again'. I've done it, it's one of the first steps and easiest ways to create a better more responsive horse. Ok I'm just gunna go, I got stuff to do. No point in trying to explain things I actually know about if people aren't going to listen
Ya trying to enplane reining to a reiner. Good for you. Also that is NOT the best way to get a lighter horse.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #29 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
You beat me too it. I was just going to post this one.

Got to love how much he is pulling on the horses mouth how little his hands move when needed and how he pulls the horse round in the turns. Which by the way are NOT CORRECT at all.
Yes. You would think with all his pressure and release and bridless speeches he would follow some of his own advice...
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #30 of 245 Old 01-30-2013, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
Yes. You would think with all his pressure and release and bridless speeches he would follow some of his own advice...
You would think but what it comes down to is that he can not ride so he works too hard on the horses face to stay where heed needs to be. Plus add in the fact that he THINKS that faster shows better training and I am sure that to the uneducated eye at these clinics it is more impressive to him to go fast even if it is not correct as most people only see the speed not that what he is doing is not correct.

Now go out and do that and drop the reins and we will talk. I do it all the time. I find that I too get to reliant on the reins so I drop them and work with out them. However I never get into my horses face like that. Not even a green horse who is just learning.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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