Pat or Clint

Thank you nokota

I totally agree!! I was watching a PP video the other night, just to see if maybe the guy had at least something to offer. It remeinded me of the Shriner's circus we used to go to as kids. And that's it. I never really saw any true, working, practical horsemanship in there...

I agree with you there. But I feel like Pat is kind of being picked on here, for something that doesn't really have anything to do with training a horse.. Who cares how he ssits? There's obviously a reason for it. He used to ride broncs for a living at one point, so maybe he's got a past injury that we don't know about. I have a biography book on him as well, and can say that all throughout the book they only talked about one injury... Where he got all the skin nearly ripped off his thumb, that's it

So does that injury to his thumb make it ok for him to yank on his horses mouths? I've almost lost fingers in dallies and I don't plow around on my horses face. And the way you sit has A LOT to do with horse training, a bad seat can really screw up a horses response to cues. If you ask me, or any other trainer worth a lick, your seat and hands has everything to do with training a responsive horse....

I've watched countless videos of him working with horses. He doesn't 'plow around' on their mouths, he is just firm when teaching. If you try to turn a horse that doesn't want to, you go 'pop, pop, pop, POP' on the reins, it's not the same as jerking a horse, but it teaches him 'oh I better turn when she asks me to so I don't get popped again'. I've done it, it's one of the first steps and easiest ways to create a better more responsive horse. Ok I'm just going to go, I got stuff to do. No point in trying to explain things I actually know about if people aren't going to listen

Nope, watch this video and tell me he isn't plowing on e reins.. Way too much contact for a western horse in a curb bit... And this is supposed to be a finished horse! The guy can't ride..

You beat me too it. I was just going to post this one.

Got to love how much he is pulling on the horses mouth how little his hands move when needed and how he pulls the horse round in the turns. Which by the way are NOT CORRECT at all.

Ya trying to enplane reining to a reiner. Good for you. Also that is NOT the best way to get a lighter horse.

Yes. You would think with all his pressure and release and bridless speeches he would follow some of his own advice...

You would think but what it comes down to is that he can not ride so he works too hard on the horses face to stay where heed needs to be. Plus add in the fact that he THINKS that faster shows better training and I am sure that to the uneducated eye at these clinics it is more impressive to him to go fast even if it is not correct as most people only see the speed not that what he is doing is not correct.

Now go out and do that and drop the reins and we will talk. I do it all the time. I find that I too get to reliant on the reins so I drop them and work with out them. However I never get into my horses face like that. Not even a green horse who is just learning.