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Pat or Clint

This is a discussion on Pat or Clint within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        02-01-2013, 12:27 PM
      #81
    Started
    Ok. Why can't we all just agree to disagree here? That's all I want. We all know something about riding, but we all learned it from different people and likely learned slightly different methods. I am a western rider, but I have ridden english and bareback (which I prefer), and I've jumped both in english and bareback. I have trained and assisted training horses, so I know what I do and how I ride works just fine for what I do.
    What I pay attention to when I see people ride is not how they ride, I pay attention to how the horse reacts to the way it's being ridden. I watch shows and see all these horses with their ears back, heads up or tucked too far under, and a upset look in their eyes.. But the most tell-tale sign I see is the annoyed switching of the tail when asked to do something.
    The only issue I have with showing that in reining horses is to me a lot of them look like they have gone introverted. But watch this video, watch the horse's head movements (minor ones) and how much the rider is pulling on the reins. Also watch the ears when they ask him to pick up the pace in the lope, this horse was upset.. Also I just watched some reining videos, I can easily say they were on the reins at least as much as Pat was and were using harsher bits as well
         
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        02-01-2013, 12:30 PM
      #82
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn ever once in a while.

    Also working a horse on the ground does not translate into good riding. I have a friend who can work a horse on the ground with the best of them. Her horses are all Halter horses. She can get them to do anything from the ground. However she does not and can not ride. She will be the first to tell you. She has halter horses b/c she can not ride.
    Actually.. It does. Whatever you teach on the ground can and will be transferred to the saddle. The way I'm taught, you're supposed to start with groundwork in the first place to set up the fundamentals
         
        02-01-2013, 12:32 PM
      #83
    Banned
    Harsher bits? Do you have X-ray vision and can see inside the horses mouth? Really this is ridiculous.
         
        02-01-2013, 12:38 PM
      #84
    Showing
    Having differing opinions and stating WHY they have those opinions does not make other peoples posts worthy of reporting.

    None of the adults have been rude or used name calling. Unfortunately, I can't say that for some of the younger posters.

    If you post something on an open forum asking for opinions, you're going to get ones you don't like. That's the way it works. If all you want is agreement, maybe start a private group and only invite those people whose opinions dovetail with your own.
         
        02-01-2013, 12:39 PM
      #85
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven    
    Actually.. It does. Whatever you teach on the ground can and will be transferred to the saddle. The way I'm taught, you're supposed to start with groundwork in the first place to set up the fundamentals

    While ground work can translate to under saddle work it does not give you the skills to do so. Ground working a horse does not give YOU the skills needed to balance and ride and use your hands properly. While you may be able to teach a horse to give to pressure on the ground and that can translate to giving to pressure under saddle. However that does not mean that your hands will learn when and how to give the release when needed to get a horse light and responsive.
         
        02-01-2013, 12:52 PM
      #86
    Super Moderator
    Hi guys...

    Just a friendly reminder that while differing opinions are ok, name-calling is not. So let's please keep it civil and respect each others opinions. Thanks.
         
        02-01-2013, 12:56 PM
      #87
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven    
    Ok. Why can't we all just agree to disagree here? That's all I want. We all know something about riding, but we all learned it from different people and likely learned slightly different methods. I am a western rider, but I have ridden english and bareback (which I prefer), and I've jumped both in english and bareback. I have trained and assisted training horses, so I know what I do and how I ride works just fine for what I do.
    What I pay attention to when I see people ride is not how they ride, I pay attention to how the horse reacts to the way it's being ridden. I watch shows and see all these horses with their ears back, heads up or tucked too far under, and a upset look in their eyes.. But the most tell-tale sign I see is the annoyed switching of the tail when asked to do something.
    The only issue I have with showing that in reining horses is to me a lot of them look like they have gone introverted. But watch this video, watch the horse's head movements (minor ones) and how much the rider is pulling on the reins. Also watch the ears when they ask him to pick up the pace in the lope, this horse was upset.. Also I just watched some reining videos, I can easily say they were on the reins at least as much as Pat was and were using harsher bits as well
    Finally Dunit Great - YouTube
    Love how you picked a horse I personally know. I was there when he was still sucking on his dam. Watched him grown up. Nice horse not really an open level horse.

    He was not being pulled around in the turns. His ears where back listening to the rider they where not pinned. Bit heavy on the stop but this horse while a nice stopper needs at this point with this rider needs a bit of help. Over all for a non pro rider that was a very nice run. Score it very well. Very light and giving and again very responsive.
    EliRose, Muppetgirl and AllieJ333 like this.
         
        02-01-2013, 01:03 PM
      #88
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    Love how you picked a horse I personally know. I was there when he was still sucking on his dam. Watched him grown up. Nice horse not really an open level horse.

    He was not being pulled around in the turns. His ears where back listening to the rider they where not pinned. Bit heavy on the stop but this horse while a nice stopper needs at this point with this rider needs a bit of help. Over all for a non pro rider that was a very nice run. Score it very well. Very light and giving and again very responsive.
    I'd give my left arm to have a horse like that! I could still ride him with my right!!!
    EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
         
        02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
      #89
    Yearling
    Wow, well this thread took off like wildfire.. Just caught up with it and it made me laugh quite a bit Nakotaheaven, that video you posted of Finally Dunnit Great, just proved that PP is a bad rider, so your arguement is invalid. That guy is not in his horse's face at all. Notice he is using ONE hand. In the video that I posted earlier in the thread, Pat is yanking Magic into a spin with twi hands using a shanked bit. NOT acceptable. And look at that video of Pat and Magic, with her mouth yanked open and tossing her head to get away from the bit, if that horse looked happy!! I want a horse to lay his ears back when I'm cueing him, it means he's paying attention to me. And harsher bit?? There is no such thing as a harsher bit, only more advanced. Tell me exactly what bit they are using in that video. Because my eyes just aren't that great.
    Anyways, I can see, argueing with children will get us nowhere. Once you PP followers advance in your riding and training skills, I'm sure that Pat Parelli will no longer "walk on water"...
         
        02-01-2013, 01:54 PM
      #90
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    Love how you picked a horse I personally know. I was there when he was still sucking on his dam. Watched him grown up. Nice horse not really an open level horse.

    He was not being pulled around in the turns. His ears where back listening to the rider they where not pinned. Bit heavy on the stop but this horse while a nice stopper needs at this point with this rider needs a bit of help. Over all for a non pro rider that was a very nice run. Score it very well. Very light and giving and again very responsive.
    A horse's ears don't have to be pinned back to express being upset. I can see it in the horse's face btw.
    Also, in the spins notice the reins from bit to hand had actually less slack in them then Pat's did, meaning the rider doesn't have to move his hands as much to get more of a response. And overall his reins were at least about as tight as Pat's were..
         

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