Quiet or Loud trainer - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 30 Old 03-13-2014, 03:51 PM
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Zexius May I offer you the original question?

"Do you find that trainers who have a very quiet way of being ( little to no talking, quieter speech, slower/less severe reactions, not as much show of affection (i.e don't pet, hug, kiss, etc. the horse for long or as often), and rely on their hands/body language/ect for discipline) have better or worse success than a louder, talkative trainer (who talks to the horse often, speaks loudly, uses vocal tones and volume for praise or discipline, shows the horse more affection, and reacts quicker/more severely)?"

I don't know why I thought the OP was referring to how a trainer relates to a horse. My mistake.
The Portuguese thing was an apparently non-universally understood attempt at sarcasm... Sorry for confusing you.
You can continue to challenge away, but I'm done...
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post #22 of 30 Old 03-13-2014, 05:58 PM
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I agree with many others - I want a trainer that will get after ME and whip ME into shape, but when it comes to my horse, I want them to have the softest cues possible.

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post #23 of 30 Old 03-13-2014, 06:14 PM
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Daniel--I wasn't trying to challenge anyone, just having a conversation about the subject at hand xD

About missing the sarcasm--my bad. I'm never good at reading it over a computer screen /apparentlydumb xD
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post #24 of 30 Old 04-14-2014, 08:30 AM
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A lot of instructors fail to identify the difference between 'shouting' and 'projecting' their voice. Big difference, but to a lot it means the same thing. A good trainer will effectively project their voice in any environment, communicate & engage in constant feedback with the rider and ensure the coaching environment is safe and promotes learning. You can't achieve any of that if you are loud, shouting and reactive. Also there's a massive difference between reacting and responding. Another detail which is sadly overlooked by many.
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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How about one that uses both (depending on the situation at hand.)? I am quiet and I beleive that being quiet and deliberate with actions and, most important consistantcy, gets more results. Be loud when being loud is nessesary otherwise be quiet and use body language, specific cues, and actions without much voice. Now I do pet and spend time with the animal but I am not much on verbal language and beleive that its not nessesary esp since horses rely more on body language than verbal language. I have observed that low tones are more effective than higher tones. Example if I am lunging a horse and want him or her to trot or walk or what have you then I simply state "trot" in a low tone, one sylable and I enunciate the word. If the horse doesnt know the verbal comand then I put in action (ie driving him/her from the rear or use a lunging whip behind the hip not hitting the animal, just to encourage a faster gait) along with the word "trot" in the same tone. When the horse trots then I back off and relax my body movement and etc. This is the reward. If the animal drops back to a walk out of the trot I repeat the process then back off when I get the result thus reward.
I have seen what screaming or yelling or loudness can create.....a nervous horse (esp if the person is inconsistant). Shrill voices and unessesary noise is nerve wracking to me so I can only imagine what an animal who's life is based on mostly body language can feel. In a herd, at liberty horses are generaly not loud. A well managed herd where pecking orders have been established and no danger is lurking about it is quiet calm and relaxing. Horses like that is signifies harmony. Excessive noise and movement causes disharmony and can signifie danger to an animal that of prey. It also expresses confusion. I will use a sooting voice and slow deliberate actions when I am trying to calm a horse down.
Sometimes I will yell if the horse is misbehaving (along with action). I want a horse to think he is going to get killed if he repeats the behavior again (ie biting) If he/she bites I use immediate action with a booming voice. I want him/her to think "Oh crap I bit that person and I am going to die". Self preservation is a HUGE motivation to change behavior quickly esp with such behavior issues like biting. Of course this is limited to serious behavior issues such as biting and the likes not for every day training issues.

So I believe be loud when nessesary otherwise be quiet.

As far as teaching a rider, excessive loudness can create nervousness also. Assertive action, yes for you want to convey the message but barking out orders to me is not nessesary. I do occasionaly get more firm and "growl" when I need to otherwise I just don't find it productive. I rarely have to bark or get realy agressive. The only time I had to get agressive was when a student's friend was on the side line yelling out to the student repeating everything I had said and was being EXTREMELY annoying.

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham

Last edited by ZaneyZanne123; 04-19-2014 at 04:13 PM.
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post #26 of 30 Old 04-19-2014, 04:36 PM
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The words you use don't matter its the tone you use. I can be calling the horse a bag of nag bones and but its the tone I use either way it helps in calming the animal down. Its the tone, pronunciation basic sound of a word not the word itself that the animal learns. For example. If I have trained a horse to trot on verbal command using one sylable in a low tone I can use another word of similarity using the same tone, and one sylable and the horse will respond. I can say the word Fought inplace of the word trot using the same tone and one sylable and a horse that understands the verbal cue will respond. I wanted to know if its the tone (i may not be using the right word in that, phonics if you will) in which a word is said or the word itself that a horse learns. So I took out my trusty steed who was well trained for verbal cues when lunged and I had some "fun". THe observations where intresting to say the least. Since she paced instead of trotted the word of such was taught. I asked her to "pace" verbally. One syllable, no drawl, no warbling and well enunciated. She paced right on. I aksed her to come back to a walk and she did. I then asked her to race in the same tone/phonic and etc as I would the word pace. VIOLA she paced. I then asked her to "mace" and again she paced. I asked her to do several similar words and every time she responded with a pacing gaite. Then I asked her to pace with a long drawl. No response, I use a drawl when I ask for a walk and when I asked her to walk from a pace using one short syllable and abrupt clip I got nothing. I asked for balk using the same drawl, tone and phonic of the word walk that I use and she responded to walking. Its not the word itself but the sound of the word and its association of an action. (learned by repitition and consistancy)in any language one speaks. Humans learn the word itself for one can say it in any manner (language specify) and know what it means. I can say the word walk in a southern drawl but a northern still understands the word, it just sounds funny to them. When an english person says the word "canter ". It sounds different to me but I still understand the actual word regardless of its tone and etc. and its meaning.

With a horse you can say walk (if he is taught to respond to the verbal command) in spanish but if the tone, syllables and phonic is not the same he/she will not respond. If it is the same then the animal will respond.

For those with horses that have learned a "verbal command" go out and have some fun and try what I am talking about you might be suprised.

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham

Last edited by ZaneyZanne123; 04-19-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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post #27 of 30 Old 04-26-2014, 01:16 PM
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As my personal like teaching me to ride trainer I would say quiet. As a young person it is important to me that she respects me as much as I respect her. Often I feel that loud trainers that yell don't get respect and don't get any better of a result then a quiet trainer. I want my trainer to be able to give me a disappointed look and have me unhappy with myself. Where as I feel that a loud trainer feels the need to yell or scream to tell you what you did well.
I went through a time in which I had no confidence and a loud trainer yelling would have broken me completely, where as my trainer tried to relate and would occasionally give me that eye roll and look at the ground. That eye roll is enough to get me unhappy with myself. Though some kids maybe don't care as much what their trainer thinks. However I am pretty sure my trainer is perfect lol(not really but pretty freakin close)
However she does baby talk horses quite a bit. SOo she talks to the horses just isn't abrasive or anything in training.
So in all I say quiet, yet respected thaty you can't walk all over but isn't walking all over you.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-04-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebred11 View Post
As my personal like teaching me to ride trainer I would say quiet. As a young person it is important to me that she respects me as much as I respect her....
I have one of those right now. Not only does she yell, but she will multi-repeat whatever she's yelling in the first place : "elbow, Elbow ELBOW ELBOW!" at which point I either get completely confused or shut down and don't hear anything anyway. I know it's her style, and most of the time I don't take it personally, but there have been at least a couple of times that it upset me.

Because of that and a few other things, I think I'm either going to cut it waaaaayyyyy back or get another trainer, completely. Which is too bad, because she has some excellent points.
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post #29 of 30 Old 08-02-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by EliRose View Post
^Basically my opinion as well. Trainers who are just loud in general (both riding cues, actions, and voice) never seem to be very good. I think a trainer needs a sense of humor, though. Both with green horses and students. I can't stand trainers who get pissed at the slightest mistake. Ugh!
Couldn't agree more. My last trainer not only didn't respect my limits but also couldn't stand students making mistakes. He use to yell at us, make us whip the horses if they didn't jump and so on.

Find someone who understands and respects your (and your horse) limitations and that encourages you to step up in the right time. Also this person should know when to be quiet and to be firm and totally agree with the sense of humor thing. Studies have shown the good impact of humor when teaching and as I former teacher myself I know it makes a difference. Good luck!
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post #30 of 30 Old 08-18-2014, 01:29 AM
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I prefer a quite trainer who is vocal only when needed because your end goal is being able to communicate with your horse using undetectable q's.
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