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STUD problems!!

This is a discussion on STUD problems!! within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Are cryptirchids more unpredictable than studs

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    08-08-2013, 07:39 AM
  #61
Super Moderator
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There is no problem with disagreeing with myself or anyone who posts, it was the way some were putting the comments, some of which were put in a very rude way.

The Horse is 2 and a stud, yes any horse can hurt or kill you, does that mean all can? Some seemed to reflect that sentiment that all could and you were stupid to own one or 3. There were nicer ways to say that in the original posts.

A mare we got at 19 months old with very little was very frisky and could have killed some people the way she would buck and fling her back feet around when we 1st got her, but with some ground work and patience she is now the sweetest best Horse in the world, should I have come to the conclusion Mare's can kill? She could have, so could the 2 year old stud my son bought one time, but he did not, I know a lot of people who have studs and ride them, many are some of the nicest horses.... to say as someone did all studs can kill.. is an overstatement.

Without knowing the whole situation it is unfair to jump on a poster and give ultimatums, one comment was no one should own a horse unless the have lots of money saved up, in a perfect world that is true, same can be said for kids, don't have any till you have money saved. But to unilaterally chastise people becuase they do not have money saved up is wrong.

There are ways to discuss things that you may see wrong without being rude, giving ultimatums and acting like you are perfect. We all learn by asking, school of hard knocks, etc.

I believe there were 7 post removed that were not of the friendly discussion type, thus the 4 comments.

What is the saying? Whoever is perfect cast the 1st stone? There were quite a few stones cast originally.

Yes, I make mistakes as most people do, but I learn better as most people do with examples and discussion, not ultimatums and having things rammed down my throat forcibly in a judgmental holier than thou way.

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    08-08-2013, 08:36 AM
  #62
Super Moderator
Southern -- I couldn't agree more. It is not necessary to be rude and snotty. If someone already owns a problem horse (like one that did not drop as anticipated) -- well, they already own him. Now, they have to go from there. Telling them that they should not have bought him is the most 'stupid' remark of all. They would probably like to have a 're-do' on that, too.

I'll bet half of the people that own horses should really not own them; but they make a living for an awful lot of other people that depend on them. Half or more of the people that try to train their own horses should not try and they produce an awful lot of the spoiled dinks out there that a bunch more people make a living off of (including the kill buyers and processing plants). BUT, somewhere along the way, quite a few of these people learn and become pretty good horsemen. They become productive members of the horse community.

I've watched people come here with what would have to be called some pretty dumb questions that leave me shaking my head. And a year or two later they are giving some pretty good answers to some pretty dumb questions someone else has asked.

People have to start somewhere. We do not live in the rural society we used to live in years ago where most people grew up around livestock. We have city born and raised people now that decide they want to have horses. Some learn what they need to do it successfully and others never do. WE do not get to decide who should own what -- especially AFTER they already bought it. We just have to try to help them out of their mess from there. Being helpful and NOT accusatory or belittling is the best way to help them.

SO, stuff the snark and nasty remarks; delete them and re-write something helpful that will actually help these people get from the point they are at to a better place and help their horses out along the way. Putting down one poster after another may make YOU think you showing everyone how much you know, but it really just shows everyone what you are made of -- and it ain't good. Go somewhere else with it. It is not appreciated here.
     
    08-08-2013, 08:42 AM
  #63
Green Broke
SOtuherntrails, yes stallions/colts are more dangerous in public perticularly if they get loose. I have been on the recieveing end or a couple of loose stallions on show grounds, one mounted my gelding whilst I was onboard forcing me into a nasty fall and scaring the crap out of my gelding who was never the same afterwards.

I've also had to pull children off thier ponies when a loose stallion was chasing up and down and chasing their ponies. I had to get those children off thier ponies to keep them safe (we are talking young children crica 7yrs old) unfortunatly one of the ponies was very badly injured by the stallion and had to be PTS on the show field (child was devestated)

Oh and anouther time where I recieved both barrels from a stallion who got loose and picked a fight with my gelding, I was trying to lead my gelding away (who whilst snorty and prancy was following where I led) Stallion lashed out and I got both barrels to the chest, resulting in a hospital trip.

In each one of these occasions the stallion was not generaly of breeding quality so would have been better off gelded anyway, but they were handled by inexperianced people (people inexperianced with stallions).

I know of a lot of well mannered beautifully behaved stallions who even if they got loose wouldnt dream of going anywhere or chasing other horses and infact could probably be caught and handled by a small child. But guess what all these paragons of virtue are owned and handled by very experienced people who have the knowlege and experiance to deal with those situations before they become situations and to drill manners into horses.

I've got 25+ yrs of experiance with horses, some pretty difficult ones on that but I still wouldnt take on a young stallion. I might take on an older stallion who has already had the manners drilled into him, but I'd be in very close contact with a stud or breeder who has a lot more experiance than I do.

Anyone keeping horses should have something put aside or access to a creditcard to pay for unexpected bills. Hell even having a horse PTS in an emergancy can cost 300.
     
    08-08-2013, 08:50 AM
  #64
Green Broke
Putting money to the side is all well and fine, but the OP has said she would have the money for the 'norm' but feels it is wiser to get a specialist look at the horse.

If required, I can drum up €3000. But if my bills come to €4000, I will try and wait. Naturally where possible.

But the main thing here is not the money, but the fact the OP wanted help in dealing with a rude, pig headed nuisance of a stud.

And she got everything but.

I agree 100% with you Faye, if trained correctly stallions can be wonderful to be around. But there are a fair few owners who don't bother with the extra work that owning a stallion can be. And that is when things become dangerous.

Some on this thread didn't ask for more details, but had a nice snark. Some of us all have bad days, but I think the lesson here is don't treat every stud owner like a kid with three months of lessons under their belt with dreams of making pretty ponies until all the facts are there ;)

Either way, I think the OP has all the details she needs for now.. lets just hope she comes back!
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    08-08-2013, 09:30 AM
  #65
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by faye    
SOtuherntrails, yes stallions/colts are more dangerous in public perticularly if they get loose. I have been on the recieveing end or a couple of loose stallions on show grounds, one mounted my gelding whilst I was onboard forcing me into a nasty fall and scaring the crap out of my gelding who was never the same afterwards.

I've also had to pull children off thier ponies when a loose stallion was chasing up and down and chasing their ponies. I had to get those children off thier ponies to keep them safe (we are talking young children crica 7yrs old) unfortunatly one of the ponies was very badly injured by the stallion and had to be PTS on the show field (child was devestated)

Oh and anouther time where I recieved both barrels from a stallion who got loose and picked a fight with my gelding, I was trying to lead my gelding away (who whilst snorty and prancy was following where I led) Stallion lashed out and I got both barrels to the chest, resulting in a hospital trip.

In each one of these occasions the stallion was not generaly of breeding quality so would have been better off gelded anyway, but they were handled by inexperianced people (people inexperianced with stallions).

I know of a lot of well mannered beautifully behaved stallions who even if they got loose wouldnt dream of going anywhere or chasing other horses and infact could probably be caught and handled by a small child. But guess what all these paragons of virtue are owned and handled by very experienced people who have the knowlege and experiance to deal with those situations before they become situations and to drill manners into horses.

I've got 25+ yrs of experiance with horses, some pretty difficult ones on that but I still wouldnt take on a young stallion. I might take on an older stallion who has already had the manners drilled into him, but I'd be in very close contact with a stud or breeder who has a lot more experiance than I do.

Anyone keeping horses should have something put aside or access to a creditcard to pay for unexpected bills. Hell even having a horse PTS in an emergancy can cost 300.

I will back Faye up with the fact that I too have been on the receiving end of a draft stallion loose on the show grounds, almost killing a gelding, double barrel kicking my husband who was thrown backwards and sustained some pretty substantial bruising and damage to the muscles of his upper thighs, then going after my mare and attempting to mount her and biting her hips. She had none of that, she has always preferred a gentleman and laid one of his front legs open.

Many of us get tired of the mindset that some posters have that they can train the problem out or, lack of experience, take that animal out in public when it has no business being there. We answer questions over and over again, sometimes to no avail. We have also seen posters do what they want regardless of what they are cautioned or told or suggested to do, after a while this jades others. Basically it is the same old same old.

A stallion is not for everyone, I personally have known some great and not so great stallions, but in the end, I know that while I have horse experience, showing, basic training, ownership, etc. I don't have the facility, time and experience to own one. My first thought would be the people around me, if my insurance was paid up and if that animal hurts someone else or another horse, can I pay those bills? We all know that today's society is very sue happy.
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    08-08-2013, 04:24 PM
  #66
Yearling
I had never heard Cherie's term "monorchid" so I looked it up. It is used in reference to one testicle being retained. Cryptorchid can refer to one or both testicles being retained within the abdomen. Crypt is from the latin for "hidden" and orchid is latin for testicle. So its literally "hidden testicle". Which means I learned something new because I have only ever heard of cryptorchids and never monorchids.

As far as the OP's original question. I still say geld him before you sell him and geld him before you start addressing his behavior issue. If you get in his cross hairs a spoiled/snotty stud is a whole new ballpark compared to a spoiled/snotty gelding. Its really not my business how many stallions you have. I just want more well mannered stallions and fewer dangerous/snotty/spoiled/ "selectively behaved" stallions in the world.
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    08-08-2013, 06:26 PM
  #67
Foal
I ask a question about a stallion who has had more than a years worth of training and had more issues than you can count on one hand when I rescued him. Whom I planned on gelding and the only thing you people could offer up was insults? I have had a ton of experience with stallions and am capable of caring and handling one. I can afford to have a normal gelding procedure, but I wouldn't trust the only equine vet in my area to touch a stallion with this issue, being as the last stallion he cut wasn't done right and is now as studly as an actual stud (no I do not own this horse). Even if you don't consider me qualified to handle a stud my fiance for sure is and he was there every time I had anything to do with my stud. He has had many years experience with studs not to mention he is a vet technician. My simple question was "if he was a gelding would he still react this way?" I asked a simple question I did not ask weather you thought I should or shouldn't own him or any of my other horses for that matter, as it is none of your concern. I asked about one behavioral error that one specific horse, who just so happened to be a stallion has.
     
    08-08-2013, 06:34 PM
  #68
Super Moderator
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Thread closed....

It is a shame someone cannot ask a question and get a answer or even have a debate without feeling ridiculed or judged, sorry Pheonix.


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