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Why is Monty Roberts against lunging?

This is a discussion on Why is Monty Roberts against lunging? within the Horse Trainers forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    08-21-2012, 03:29 PM
  #31
Trained
Yes you are correct you do not want a horse thinking. You want them listening and waiting on the next cue. This is why you never pracitce a reining patern.

While each maneuver is in and of itself seperate from the next. The back is part of the stop. This is how you get those big stops. The horse is thinking back as it stops. Again watch the video I posted. Watch how the mares back feet are going back before she even comes to a complet stop.

Go and watch people like Shawn Mike Stacy and so on train a horse to stop. It is all about the back up.

Thinking ahead can and does get you into trouble this again is why you change things up. However with the stop it really is one of those places that the horse thinking back is a good thing. Again watch any of the top trainers train the stop. Most will keep saying whoa as they back their horses.
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    08-21-2012, 07:29 PM
  #32
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
Yes you are correct you do not want a horse thinking. You want them listening and waiting on the next cue. This is why you never pracitce a reining patern.

While each maneuver is in and of itself seperate from the next. The back is part of the stop. This is how you get those big stops. The horse is thinking back as it stops. Again watch the video I posted. Watch how the mares back feet are going back before she even comes to a complet stop.

Go and watch people like Shawn Mike Stacy and so on train a horse to stop. It is all about the back up.

Thinking ahead can and does get you into trouble this again is why you change things up. However with the stop it really is one of those places that the horse thinking back is a good thing. Again watch any of the top trainers train the stop. Most will keep saying whoa as they back their horses.
I agree with this. The back up is really the foundation of the foundation of a lot of things you teach your horse. If body suppleness and speed control is the foundation, then the back up is the "groundbreaking".
     
    08-21-2012, 08:16 PM
  #33
Foal
I think you will mislead a lot of "backyard" riders with all this information. You guys are way beyond in your training, showing. It's scary to me to hear that a horse should think "back" on a whoa. Novice riders (and I am sure there are a lot here) I feel should learn basic position, forward. Backup comes later. I see too many novice riders yanking their horses back, heads up, because they think the horse should learn first how to back?? A pity.
     
    08-21-2012, 09:10 PM
  #34
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlaflack    
I think you will mislead a lot of "backyard" riders with all this information. You guys are way beyond in your training, showing. It's scary to me to hear that a horse should think "back" on a whoa. Novice riders (and I am sure there are a lot here) I feel should learn basic position, forward. Backup comes later. I see too many novice riders yanking their horses back, heads up, because they think the horse should learn first how to back?? A pity.
I do not think anyone said anything about this being the first thing you do. What we are talking about is what works well when asking your horse to stop to get a better stop.
     
    08-21-2012, 09:55 PM
  #35
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlaflack    
I think you will mislead a lot of "backyard" riders with all this information. You guys are way beyond in your training, showing. It's scary to me to hear that a horse should think "back" on a whoa. Novice riders (and I am sure there are a lot here) I feel should learn basic position, forward. Backup comes later. I see too many novice riders yanking their horses back, heads up, because they think the horse should learn first how to back?? A pity.
How is this misleading, just because a novice don't understand it? I would think if a novice reads these posts and don't understand the principals it would be their responsibility to ask questions and learn. There is nothing misleading being discussed here, misunderstood maybe, but the pity is novices who don't accept the responsibility to learn and advance their horsemanship.
     
    08-21-2012, 09:57 PM
  #36
Trained
I was taught to have a horse back up a couple of steps after a stop. I was told it improved their stop and also encouraged them to square their feet at a halt. The 3 horses I've worked in a round pen did NOT connect turning to look at me in a pen with turning anywhere when stopped under saddle. Or if they did, backing up 2 steps was enough to cure them of it before I even noticed.

That said, I don't normally lunge my horses. They all did lunging during their training, but that was for weeks, not months or years.

I'll add as a novice myself, it helps to remember what people in a given sport have as their goals when using their training tips. I want my horse thinking ahead. That is part of what got me interested in riding horses. But even I want them to anticipate the helpful things...not anything.
     
    08-21-2012, 10:07 PM
  #37
Foal
A back up is beneficial to many things a horse will do, from stopping,working on their hind quarters, to rating speed, to collection, to calming one mentally. There is many benefits of a correct back up.
     
    08-21-2012, 10:10 PM
  #38
Foal
I want a horse listening to my cues. Not thinking ahead of what is coming. Halt is halt, not backup. Wait for my next direction. Sorry, I should not be in this discussion, as I am a dressage rider. Carry on.
     
    08-23-2012, 04:03 PM
  #39
Foal
When I am working my horses on the ground it is usually to gain their full attention and respect(if one starts moving when I go to saddle them for example); therefore the horse MUST face me(to show me that they are giving me their full respect and attention) when I que them to stop. If not, then they get to work some more....I also work my horse on the ground with a loose lead -- I do not pull their noses in as some have pointed out this can lead to further issues. This also ensures that they are in tune with me and are giving me their respect and attention.

This hasn't translated into work while horseback, when I ask for a stop - they stop straight...this may be because I stop them from both directions while doing groundwork and then must turn in from either, or it may be because they understand the difference between me being on the ground and on their back...I don't know.

I train all of my horses to "think" about backing when they stop -- mainly to encourage the horse to use their hindquarters. This comes in handy while working cattle and roping.
     
    08-23-2012, 05:18 PM
  #40
Started
I love Monty Roberts.

I also love Lunging. I lunge my horses... not as often as I used to, but still fairly often. It's a great training tool and it lets me get an eye for their gaits and whether or not they are moving differently.
     

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