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Your opinion on Parelli

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        01-22-2013, 09:11 AM
      #91
    Weanling
    I have no idea who pat parrelli, what ever his name is... I don't solely like to rely on what all these other trainers say I think its valuable to go your own way, and my horse is my trainer atm.
         
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        01-22-2013, 09:18 AM
      #92
    Super Moderator
    I am always baffled as to how any of these NH 'trainers' did make it into the UK - mostly by clever marketing, smoke and mirrors.
    The style of riding is aimed at the Western market because that's where it grew from - but we don't traditionally ride like that in the UK, our riding style evolved from the basic dressage contact combined with the 'all purpose seat'
    NH was a way to distance the US from the old style bronc busting, treat 'em mean way of doing things - but the UK traditional method of breaking horses is historically to get them used to being handled (which was always done in a stable), groundwork, lunging, long reining and then the transition into being ridden
    Maybe the people in the UK who find a need for people like PP and Monty Roberts should look back to their own roots because if so many are finding themselves with problems I'm pretty sure the blame mostly lies with people biting off more than they can chew and too many inexperienced people trying to break & train horses rather than pay someone to do the job properly
    PP may not have stolen his knowledge in as much as he acknowledges who he learnt from and does give them credit for that but this was information freely given and now he's packaging it and selling it.
         
        01-22-2013, 09:39 AM
      #93
    Showing
    Of PP, or the machine behind him, didn't package these methods, how would people learn about cruelty free training? Many thousands have learned from him and other advocates of this way.
    Northern likes this.
         
        01-22-2013, 09:40 AM
      #94
    Trained
    Actually, as some of the quotes I provided above show, it is PAT AND LINDA PARELLI who claim their teachings are "revolutionary" and even provides "magical results". They claim they have "discovered" how to teach a horse to ride with contact. It is NOT unfair to take what they say at face value. Someone whose website announces on its webpage that they are "revolutionary" IS claiming to provide something new, something so unheard of as to be a revolution.

    When I quote from their homepage, I'm not slandering them with "a gross misrepresentation of the truth", other than to let their own words weigh in against them.

    I have said I'm opposed to using video programs to train horses, but I have not said I think Clinton Anderson is better. On the contrary, I have said I oppose anyone who suggest their video training "allows horse owners at all levels of experience (from trail rider to Olympic level Dressage rider) to achieve success without force, partnership without dominance and harmony without coercion"- again quoting Pat Parelli's website.

    Is there some good in it? Maybe. There is some good in a lot of training videos, and in books. Is the hype to help ratio a bit high? I'd say yes:
    "Two hearts. Two minds. Two days. One vision.

    Linda and Pat Parelli. Live. Love, Language and Leadership and a revolution in the heart and mind of every Horse Lover.

    Where will YOU be?
    "
    Or:
    "It’s 8:00 on a crisp, cool Saturday morning. You and a few of your closest friends are just pulling into the arena parking lot when you see – and hear – the laughing, dancing, screaming crowd outside. They’re snapping pictures on their phones, sipping hot coffee out of their thermoses, and they’re all wondering the same thing you are:

    “What are we going to see?!”
    If those are the only trainers in the UK, then I guess you'll have to put up with the hype to get the help. I don't think the idea of training a horse to be a partner is so radical that no one else in England trains that way. Maybe the traditional English style of training is to whip and spur a horse into a bloody, submissive mess - but I doubt it. There are too many English riders on HF who obviously love and enjoy their horses.

    I think many of us who aren't crazy about Parelli are reacting to the hype. And it could well be that many Parelli trainers train without the hype, and use the Parelli name as marketing, and to reassure folks they aren't trainers who beat a horse into submission. I suspect there are a number of darned good 'Parelli trainers' who would do a fine job with a horse.

    But I don't think Pat Parelli walks on water, and I would avoid any horse advertised as "Parelli trained" OR "Clinton Anderson trained" unless the name of the professional trainer following those methods was included. I would actually prefer to contact the local, unknown trainer who worked with Lilly, Trooper and Mia, and see if she knew of any horses...

    I'm glad you've worked with a local trainer who helped you a lot and taught you a lot. That is great. If he felt comfortable training horses using Parelli methods, that is fine too. But I'd also like you to understand why a lot of folks in southern Arizona have an adverse reaction when they hear "Parelli trained horse"...
         
        01-22-2013, 09:48 AM
      #95
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Of PP, or the machine behind him, didn't package these methods, how would people learn about cruelty free training? Many thousands have learned from him and other advocates of this way.
    There are TONS of trainers who don't abuse horses. Writing in the 1800s, Teddy Roosevelt discussed the horse wranglers who were paid to break a wild horse in 3 rides, but he also mentioned that horses trained for an individual owner were taught over months instead, because that resulted in a much better horse.

    There have always been folks who trained horses well. The picture below is of a British Army procured horse in World War 1, resting with a rider who probably had been a city boy a few months earlier. They were approaching the front lines, but had a short break. As you can see, there was a trusting relationship :

         
        01-22-2013, 10:10 AM
      #96
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pegasus1    
    I actually think this thread is a total waste of time now.
    It seems that the fact that many thousands of folks have been helped by the Parelli program, which must therefore have some good in it, is going to be overlooked in a storm of prejudice.
    There are those who say Pat has stolen all his knowledge from others, despite the fact that he always acknowledges his mentors. Everytime I have heard him use a stock phrase I have heard him say where it came from. The first few minutes of the colt starting video series is devoted to explaining who taught him and pointing out he is only passing on their knowledge. But folks still say he has done nothing original, he has stolen it all. A gross misrepresentation of the truth designed to reinforce their prejudice against him.
    They say that he should not be followed as it is dangerous to follow a video program, but that Clinton Anderson is better. As far as I can see by searching the internet there are NO CA instructors in the UK. So following CA would be entirely dependent upon videos and by that logic much much worse than following Parelli who has many certified UK instructors.

    So maybe all those folks who say I should not follow Parelli, but should follow Buck or Clinton or Mark Rashid or Stacey Westfall etc etc could do some googleing for me and find a good program that is available in the UK and has instructors that I can train with.
    See here is my problem. DO NOT FOLLOW ANY of them. Go out and find a good reputable PROVEN trainer and use them. The amount of money you spend on these DVDs you could have gotten a lot of lessons. Then if you wish to check out some DVDs go for it but use DVDs from trainers Not clinitions who have PROVEN then what they do work. Do I have DVDs on training? Sure I do. However the one thing you will find as a common thread through them all is that there is not program. There is only good training techneques and all the people doing these DVDs are PROVEN trainers.

    See the common thread through what I am saying?? PROVEN.

    While some of PP followers may be getting good results the fact is that for every one person who does I can show you 10 who do not. I will also bet that the ones who do have one thing in common. They would have done well with out PP and his program.
         
        01-22-2013, 10:20 AM
      #97
    Trained
    ^^i agree with you

    I am that person pretty much. When I got my mare as a basically unhandled 3yo, I had had a lot of experience training horses, but with her I was just not sure where to start. I had never worked with anything that green. I started watching CA dvds and they helped me a ton ! But I wasnt a green horse person. I already had good feel and experience.
    bsms and HorseCrazyTeen like this.
         
        01-22-2013, 01:02 PM
      #98
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pegasus1    
    I actually think this thread is a total waste of time now.
    It seems that the fact that many thousands of folks have been helped by the Parelli program, which must therefore have some good in it, is going to be overlooked in a storm of prejudice.
    There are those who say Pat has stolen all his knowledge from others, despite the fact that he always acknowledges his mentors. Everytime I have heard him use a stock phrase I have heard him say where it came from. The first few minutes of the colt starting video series is devoted to explaining who taught him and pointing out he is only passing on their knowledge. But folks still say he has done nothing original, he has stolen it all. A gross misrepresentation of the truth designed to reinforce their prejudice against him.
    They say that he should not be followed as it is dangerous to follow a video program, but that Clinton Anderson is better. As far as I can see by searching the internet there are NO CA instructors in the UK. So following CA would be entirely dependent upon videos and by that logic much much worse than following Parelli who has many certified UK instructors.

    So maybe all those folks who say I should not follow Parelli, but should follow Buck or Clinton or Mark Rashid or Stacey Westfall etc etc could do some googleing for me and find a good program that is available in the UK and has instructors that I can train with.
    I don't care for CA either. But Pat is a bad rider. He's choppy, has no finesse and is constantly yanking on their mouth. In all of the videos I've watched of him. And the horses that I have retrained that were started by Parelli certified trainers relied on contact to function. I couldn't get the horses to lope without pulling back on their mouths first. In the western world, a horse shouldn't do that. It's the exact opposite of the correct way. In a western training world, we strive to have our horses respond to the slightest cue. There are better trainers out there. Pat marketed himself good with big words and the micro-analyzation of the horse's every move. It isnt that complicated. I would think a trainer with that big of name and that many followers would strive a little better to improve his riding and responsiveness of his horses. But "he's Pat Parelli, he must know it all". And he sure thinks he does.. Its sad that people will follow someone with that poor of hands..
         
        01-22-2013, 01:37 PM
      #99
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
    Pat marketed himself good with big words and the micro-analyzation of the horse's every move. It isnt that complicated.
    LOL! that's surely the reason why you tie them tight with hobbles : to micro-analyze the way they move! And you think you're the one who can tell who has à poor technic...
    You're really funny!
         
        01-22-2013, 01:39 PM
      #100
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    See here is my problem. DO NOT FOLLOW ANY of them. Go out and find a good reputable PROVEN trainer and use them. The amount of money you spend on these DVDs you could have gotten a lot of lessons. Then if you wish to check out some DVDs go for it but use DVDs from trainers Not clinitions who have PROVEN then what they do work. Do I have DVDs on training? Sure I do. However the one thing you will find as a common thread through them all is that there is not program. There is only good training techneques and all the people doing these DVDs are PROVEN trainers.

    See the common thread through what I am saying?? PROVEN.

    While some of PP followers may be getting good results the fact is that for every one person who does I can show you 10 who do not. I will also bet that the ones who do have one thing in common. They would have done well with out PP and his program.
    Do you realise how few trainers there are who are not associated with a clinician or the BHS ? If you have your sort of experience you probably don't need a trainer and can tell a good trainer from a bad one. If you don't have that experience then you can't make that judgement so easily. As a result, having seen some "independent" trainers at my yard ("that's it kick him hard now, keep kicking, keep kicking, ok use the whip"!! No exaggeration, I heard it a week ago ) I don't want to get involved.
    Whatever you may think of Pat I have been very impressed by the standard of instructors his program produces, especially the ones with 2 stars or more. And I do know good instruction when I see it having been a professional flying instructor for many years. Therefore I would prefer to stick with instructors trained and monitored by his program than take pot luck on an independent.
    I could go down the BHS instructors route, but a) they do not promote the kind of lightness in riding I like and b) they are most certainly not "natural".
    Northern likes this.
         

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