Your opinion on Parelli - Page 14 - The Horse Forum
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post #131 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBCrone View Post
When it comes to horse training, a trainer can comment with knowledge on another trainers ability or lack there of.
Do you call somebody thinking that with his vaquero horses she could do the same thing that Michel Robert (that mean jumping over 1.50m obstacles) is a trainer?

Faites de lui un compagnon, pas un esclave.
Nuno Oliveira.
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post #132 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dame Nuit View Post
I just feel sorry for the horse when I see What he has in his mouth and the guy pulling the rein.
He sure to the job, or he will have his skull broken by the bit.
See you don't get it. He isn't plowing on the bit, you never see the horses mouth gape open. He's pulling on the bosallito under the bridle. I saw a lot of mouth gaping on the horse in the video you posted. I've studied NH. I've tried a few things. It doesnt work if you want nice reining ranch horses. And the hardest part about training NH? Is taking it back out of the horses. I've had my fair share of it. And I don't like it, simple as that. The sad thing about you is that you know nothing about vaquero horsemanship. At least I gave NH a chance..
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #133 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
Not sure what video you where watching
I'm speaking of this video :
Vaquero Bridle Horse Sale - YouTube

Guy pulls his reins at :
0'10
0'50
0'57
1'51
2'35
2'40
2'42

Faites de lui un compagnon, pas un esclave.
Nuno Oliveira.
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post #134 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:57 AM
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Take those horse out in the open, try and docotor a cow, sort pairs, all doing it with slight movements of a rein. It won't get done. Yes they are great in the arena, but outside the arena? They are nothing more than large dogs..
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~Started young horses in Bosca te Ador, unto the two rein the old Spanish spade, brought them along with two hands that were gentle. Some fine reining horses as ever were made~
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post #135 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:57 AM
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Actually, a lot of folks who don't "do" Parelli see more than enough "Parelli horses" to form an opinion of the overall training. I haven't seen a horse trained by a top Parelli instructor, so I won't comment on those. But if Parelli wants to claim his revolutionary techniques work for all riders and are magical, then he can accept the evaluation folks make based on the horses they meet.

I rode Mia with a leveraged bit for the first time Monday. As leveraged bits go, it was pretty mild. But then, it was my first time with a leveraged bit, and I know I'm not a good rider. The leverage on this particular bit wasn't very much, but I could see right away how taking my right little finger from under the rein to resting it on top of the rein was enough to send a message to Mia. [BTW - for unknown reasons, my left little finger is always on top of the rein, and my right is normally underneath. I have no idea why I do that...]

Bits are about communication, not pain. That ought to be horsemanship 101. If I'm careful - and admittedly there are lots who are not - I think a leveraged bit might help both Mia and I to develop a more nuanced and subtle communication as we ride together.

And riding "together" isn't something new. Does anyone really believe Robert E. Lee yanked Traveller's face around? There was another Civil War general who was famous for his brutality. Even among his staff, he was known for decking someone who disturbed him. Yet in one battle, when he had to switch horses because of the horse's injuries, the first horse got loose...and raced across the battlefield to rejoin "his" rider.

There have always been folks who were good with horses and to them. The idea that only the last 50 years has seen good treatment of horses by men is silliness.

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post #136 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
If that is all you have to chose from where you are I feel really bad for the horses. Around here there are plenty of good proven trainers. Just with in a few hours I have a multi million $$ trainer and a lot of other well proven trainers.

Finding a good trainer it not that hard. Even for a newer rider. All you have to do is be willing to do your homework and spend a bit of money on one. You get what you pay for. Too many people seem to think they can do it on their own with just a DVD or the net to help them out. To this day I still use trainers for my horses.

I have yet to see a PP certified trainer that I would let swing a leg over one of my finished horses let along train one.
The UK is overflowing with good trainers and because its so small its easy to access them so no excuse for not being able to find someone you can work with.
How else do we manage to produce top event, showjumping & dressage riders - I'm pretty sure that they mostly managed to get to where they are without PP
And please dont throw Robert Whittaker at me - he may have some links to James Roberts but his family were producing top horses before PP was even heard of.
How do you blame an instructor for a client that has a lazy horse that cant be bothered to work - because she tells the rider to kick it and then whip it to get it moving. That horse is a description of what a huge % of the horse population own - because they lack the desire & confidence to ride a horse that's forward going.
The Pony Club and BHS all stress the importance of light contact - a horse cant go forward fluidly and with 'spark' if you're hanging onto its head with a vice like grip
I dont understand what Pegasus means by 'less natural' so I cant respond to that
Cruelty tends to come from two directions -
People who have a mental disposition to want to hurt animals - and nothing will ever change them &
Ignorance - which is usually more associated with owners not understanding the needs of the horse so neglecting it - no excuse for that as even before the age of the internet there have been thousands of books and magazines written that give clear and ample advice on how to correctly care for horses
The Pony Club was founded in 1928 and the BHS in 1947 - they are both easily accessible and always willing to give advice - they may seem a bit 'stuffy' on the outside but their priority has always been for the good welfare of the horse and to encourage owners in good practices
PP has done nothing to make the UK a kinder place - it didnt have a problem to start with - just new age horse owners - people who cant get off their backsides and find 'real life' trainers, take good lessons and look for opportunities to get hands on management training. (Its what we used to do) They would rather sit on their butts in front of a video in comfort
NOTE: I was friendly with a US family in the late 60's who had moved to the UK and they were far from cruel, I also knew a US farrier who married a british woman and moved to the UK with his quarter horse - that was in the early 70's and he was wonderful around that mare - to listen to some of it you'd think the entire US nation were thrashing the hides off their animals before PP appeared to 'save them all'
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post #137 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 10:59 AM
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Well yeah ... because I'm pretty darned confident that if that's what she wanted to do, she could easily do it. *shrugs*

But I'm not going to get baited into your game here. You obviously think anyone who doesn't follow Parrelli has no knowledge. Someone who follows a different tradition has no knowledge and makes you feel sick. Since I don't subscribe to that line of thinking we will never agree.
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post #138 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses View Post
I saw a lot of mouth gaping on the horse in the video you posted.
What you saw was not horse mouth gaping, but horse chewing. What we want to have the horse do. Because when a horse is chewing, he has his whole back relaxed and so he has a better locomotion.
I'm affraid you're not able ta do the same thing with your vaquero horses.
And I'm affraid, the vaquero's way is not the only way to ride a horse.

Open your window! The world is so wade! You have to discover it!

Faites de lui un compagnon, pas un esclave.
Nuno Oliveira.
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post #139 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 11:03 AM
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PS
I doubt if anyone in the UK had ever even heard of a gum chain - never mind used one - before PP demonstrated it so ably on Catwalk
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post #140 of 402 Old 01-23-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBCrone View Post
You obviously think anyone who doesn't follow Parrelli has no knowledge.
Not at all! I just see that those who say they don't like the method just don't know how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBCrone View Post
Someone who follows a different tradition has no knowledge and makes you feel sick.
No only the vaquero's way to ride a horse, using a bit that could break its skull... There are plenty of traditions to ride a horse, very few of them use such brutal tacks.

Faites de lui un compagnon, pas un esclave.
Nuno Oliveira.
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