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Your opinion on Parelli

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  • Parelli "spade bit"

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    01-23-2013, 11:36 AM
  #181
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
So you really think vaquero's style is the ONLY way to have a responsive horse?
I think you need to look outside of the box a bit
I agree with what nhareiner and wanstrom are saying because I understand what they are trying to get at - and I'm not even a western rider. PP does not own the rights to riding with light hands in any discipline
I have no problem with anything that promotes good horsemanship - but it doesnt belong to any one person or any one section of the sport
Look at all the 'words' - desensitise, sacking out, imprinting, opposition reflex, pressure and release. They get trotted out as if they are some new magical inventions that no one did before when in fact they are centuries old and practiced by horsemen worldwide as 'matter of course' day to day handling and education - they just didnt give them fancy names to make them sound impressive - but doing that sells books and videos because average Joe thinks he is learning something new and exclusive
     
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    01-23-2013, 11:38 AM
  #182
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
As for responsive and light. I have little doubt that you think your horses are and they might be. However I have yet to see even a high level dressage horse as light as a finished bridle horse. Yes they are light but still require some contact.

Again I do not think you fully under stand what a truly finished western bridle horse is.
I don't understand how a finished western bridle horse is the same way you don't understand a finished dressage horse is.
When you say "but they still require some contact" that mean you have no idea of how many informations you can get in you hands when the horse agree with a soft contact. Contact is not required by the horse, but by the rider.
It's a completly different way to do things. You don't want to understand how I can't k now the way you do. But you don't know more about the way we do.
The feed back from the horse to the riders hand is a great help for lightness and precision, and couldn't be done with a harsh bit. And you can't jump over very big obstacle without mastering that part of riding precision.
     
    01-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #183
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
It really is something different isn't it? Most people go through their whole lives never actually riding a well bred well trained horse that knows what you want with the slightest of movement. I remember my first reiner. I really thaght he was a great horse and very responsive and good. Until I got my Dun It mare and used a very very good trainer with her. Oh boy. What a world of differenace. Charlie was very well bred. G-Son of Doc O'Lena top and Peppy San/Gay Bar King bottom. But nothing like riding a daughter of Dun It out of a very very proven dam.

Keep up working towards it. It is well worth it.
Two weeks ago I let one of the young girls ride my reining horse, she rides a reining horse but has decided to turn it in to a jumper, she's only ever ridden English......she was complaining that her horse was heavy on her hands on on the forehand all the time.....literally yanking her forward in the saddle.......I put her on my horse, told her to drop the reins, look to the right, step into the right stirrup and put her outside leg on.....'woooooo hoooooo' and giggling like Rick Gore is all you could here in the arena when she did her first ever spin.....I was giving her an example of how light and responsive a horse SHOULD be, so that she knew what it would feel like to NOT be working harder than the horse.....gotta say it was the highlight of my day seeing her grin like that
     
    01-23-2013, 11:41 AM
  #184
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
So you really think vaquero's style is the ONLY way to have a responsive horse?
You know whats sad? Is that you don't realize that every training method, whether is be dressage, to NH, to the modern vaquero horsemanship, is it all originated with the ancient form of making a bridle horse, brought over to the US from the Spainards. Even in Europe, all the training was based off of people making responsive, working horses. Trace it back and do your homework, you will find that every method is branched off from the old bridle horse art. In some form or another. The true Bridle horse is a piece of history and a method that has lasted for thousands of years, and hundreds of years in the US. If you would at least try and educate yourself at all, you would know this. I doubt this NH fad will last hundreds or even thousands of years..
smrobs, nrhareiner, jaydee and 1 others like this.
     
    01-23-2013, 11:45 AM
  #185
Yearling
Ok, we know your obssesed with the horses jumping.. Woopty-doo.. Its not a big thing to me and not even really that impessive. If dressage horses don't need contact to perform, why is every single big-name dressage horse out there pushing on the bit and has foam running down it's front end?? And there isn't a such thing as a harsh bit. They are only more advanced for advanced horsemen.. No bit is harsh if used in the right hands.
nrhareiner and NBEventer like this.
     
    01-23-2013, 11:46 AM
  #186
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
You know whats sad? Is that you don't realize that every training method, whether is be dressage, to NH, to the modern vaquero horsemanship, is it all originated with the ancient form of making a bridle horse, brought over to the US from the Spainards. Even in Europe, all the training was based off of people making responsive, working horses. Trace it back and do your homework, you will find that every method is branched off from the old bridle horse art. In some form or another. The true Bridle horse is a piece of history and a method that has lasted for thousands of years, and hundreds of years in the US. If you would at least try and educate yourself at all, you would know this. I doubt this NH fad will last hundreds or even thousands of years..
So you too have read Kikkuli and Xenophon?
     
    01-23-2013, 11:46 AM
  #187
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
Contact is not required by the horse, but by the rider.
Again, you're showing just how much you don't know.

Contact is very much required by both partners in order to communicate effectively. The majority of cues come from the seat and legs, but the finer, more subtle ones come from rein/bit contact.

There's a reason a finely tuned dressage or working cattle horse looks like they're doing things on their own; it's because the cues are so very subtle from their rider, and are coming from that necessary contact.
themacpack, bsms, jaydee and 2 others like this.
     
    01-23-2013, 11:48 AM
  #188
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
So you too have read Kikkuli and Xenophon?
No, I've read history books.. I've learned things from bridle horseman that learned from their fathers that learned from their fathers. I think YOU are the one at needs to read more..
     
    01-23-2013, 11:48 AM
  #189
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Nuit    
I don't understand how a finished western bridle horse is the same way you don't understand a finished dressage horse is.

Oh I do. I have quite a few friends who have Dressage horses. Yet most of them went me to help them get their horses lighter. Wonder why that is? I am not talking low level cheap horses wither. I am talking well bred level 3 horses who score in the high 60 and even into the 70 in their tests.

When you say "but they still require some contact" that mean you have no idea of how many informations you can get in you hands when the horse agree with a soft contact. Contact is not required by the horse, but by the rider.

Yet you seem to think that is the ONLY way to get that information. It is not. You also seem to think that my horses will not take contact. They will. I just do not need it to get the job done.

It's a completly different way to do things. You don't want to understand how I can't k now the way you do. But you don't know more about the way we do.
The feed back from the horse to the riders hand is a great help for lightness and precision, and couldn't be done with a harsh bit. And you can't jump over very big obstacle without mastering that part of riding precision.

The fact is that is just what Dressage wants in their riding. Does not mean that it is the only way to get that information.

As for jumping things. Ya not a big deal. Heck seen little kids to it. Seem cowboys jump large deep creaks. You know the things that do not give way and if you miss you and your horse die. All in a western saddle and a shanked bit.
smrobs and equiniphile like this.
     
    01-23-2013, 11:49 AM
  #190
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
Ok, we know your obssesed with the horses jumping.. Woopty-doo.. Its not a big thing to me and not even really that impessive. If dressage horses don't need contact to perform, why is every single big-name dressage horse out there pushing on the bit and has foam running down it's front end?? And there isn't a such thing as a harsh bit. They are only more advanced for advanced horsemen.. No bit is harsh if used in the right hands.
Because you know nothing about it, and because you don't want to know what's going on next door... And you are the one to say I'm not open minded?
     

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