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10K views 80 replies 31 participants last post by  rocky pony 
#1 ·
There is this chick on FB and is calling me an animal abuser because I ride horses, use a bit, and thinks it is unimaginable to even properly use spurs, shoes, and whips. She is some weirdo I tell ya. They are even against CORRECTING your horse when it puts you in danger. They are COMPLETELY against showing. Calling bits sadistic when horses don't even mind them. Her "about me" spot on her page says all this BS about "i don't want to hear how good your horseback ride was or how good your horse reacted to conditioned responses or how terrible your horse is". What do you think? Here is their website...Welcome to www.horsemanshipwithoutharm.com. They have some good points but I still think they are a bunch of crazies....:shock: So yeah, tell me your opinion!
 
#5 ·
We had a "crazy" lady at our barn a couple years ago and she went into a "break" so to speak and told us if we didn't take off all the shoes on the horses, got rid of the bits and saddles, jumps, whips, and other misc items she came up with that she would call the police. I can blame her mental state of mind, but for others its really a matter of a difference of belief. Its not really worth me getting upset about it because its not like I can change their minds. People will agree to disagree constantly in the horseworld, hopefully.
My advice to you is to block their posts so you don't read them. Then go about your own life and what makes you happy and continuing with what you believe in. Sometimes people choose different paths but it doesnt necessarily make it a wrong one. Its just what works for them, which is okay. Everyone is different.
 
#6 ·
How do you know her and how many horses has she trained? Looks like a website she set up with no real information of value. I think most people that deal with horses have a deep respect and compassion for the animals. Thats a nice thought to deal with horses in a completely non 'abusive' manner; however, if a horse puts you or someone else in danger then I think discipline is fair action.

Does she even ride horses anymore? I just saw a few pictures of a girl with a horse and one donkey.. ?
 
#7 ·
She "trained" 3 horses recently (her own). She used to ride and now wishes to "heaven and hell" that she never did. Discipline is a fair action. They look at horses as equals which is a HUGE mistake. Horses were put on this earth UNDER humans. If they see horses as equals, they must have hellians for kids because they would not discipline them either which is wrong.
 
#11 ·
She just talks words and says nothing.
AGREED! She talks up a storm but says nothing.

If we all had the time and money to put into our OTTB's and high-strung, unpredictable horses to get them to the point where they could ride 110% safe, sound, and completely reliable, in just a flippin rope around their necks down route 81, would a lot of us do it? Heck yea! But the fact of the matter is, we're perfectly fine riding our horses in tack that is SAFE, no matter how bombproof the horse is because, oh shocker, horses are never compleetely safe! A lot of the horse world has 20, 30, 40 horses to train, and it's just not practical to sit and teach a horse to carry a rag around in his teeth while dancing around cones all day. We teach a horse to be a horse, not a pet dog that we teach stupid tricks to. :?

Wow, bits are abuse? Really? Is it worth it to ride in a halter and leadrope and fall when your horse takes off and you can't stop him in your "non-abusive" tack? You land yourself in a hospital bed, while your horse runs blindly into barbed wire and cuts himself all up when you weren't on his back anymore to stop it. Non-abusive? Gimme a break.

Sorry for the rant, it just makes me so mad when people with no horse sense try to make people believe they do just so they can.........I'm stopping there.
 
#9 ·
I had a lady like that at Toni's barn....She caught that idea after she had a nervous breakdown and discovered she was Schizophrenic. We called her Crazy Shelly.
 
#17 ·
I know this is extremely immature of me, but did anyone else snicker at "I find this way of being with horses to be the most incredible thing I have ever embarked on."

Just the way she says "being with horses"...:lol:
Sorry, I had to! :lol:
 
#20 ·
Theses are the messages written back and forth to eachother..... these are here to laugh at lol..........I cannot believe I almost fell for it........

Hey Shaelynn,
it's nice to see you again!
I just have to say...if you would like some further education on horsemanship, natural care and management, developing a harm-free relationship on the ground, I am happy to help as much as I can.

However, I cannot tolerate such comments on some of my photos. There is nothing good about putting a bit in a horses mouth and I do not condone their promotion on my page.
The horse does not belong in "sport" and it saddens me that people use them as such, and yes, even "pleasure" riding causes damage to the horses' body and mind.

Once again, if you would like help or advice, I am happy to assist. I started a blog with information regarding what I mentioned above.
Becoming Equal with Equus
or you can check out NHE news

Thank you for considering my words.

~Annie

Me: I would really love some tips for on-ground and relationship building but please accept that I will use bits. Not harsh ones but snaffles



Annie:Well, you cannot begin a truly equal relationship with a horse until you can promise him that you will not inflict pain on his body.
When you can make that promise to him, I can help.
I can never ever accept bits. They are cruel. Snaffles are very harsh, there is is nothing soft about a bit, there is nothing gentle about jointed ones, or solid ones....they are all used for one purpose. To control the horse through pain.
Please consider how much pain bits and riding cause a horse, no matter how well-intentioned we may be.

Me:I will need some time to contemplate it because this is ENTIRELY different than what I have been taught. If I do decide to go bitless however, I will still keep my bit on hand JUST IN CASE of emergencies. I have gathered some good knowledge from you folks in the past such as barefoot which has done great for my ponies :) I wonder if they have nosebands that you can hook on to your regular bridle to use instead because I just bought a nice new bridle :/ The last time, I bought a rope hack and when we were cantering on the trail, I was about to get bitchslapped by a tree and tried to slow Comet down and the stupid thing broke...........5 TIMES!!!!

Annie: Yes, it is a very different way of thinking ;-) But we MUST change the way we see the horse. The horse is NOT created for riding. So when we can understand that fact....when we can realize that this is an unnecessary activity that exists to make the human feel good about themselves. There are many other activities we can do with the horse that does not interfere with their natural physiology.

Take a look around NHE news
There is a forum where like-minded people can answer a lot more questions a lot more effectively than I can, as well as an amazing support system.
It is certainly a life-style change, and a huge mental shift, but it is for those who care more about their horse than for their own egoistic pleasure.

Shaelynn: I must kindly disagree with the anti-riding. The Bible permits it. With the second coming of the Lord, he comes in riding on a white horse. The horse was created by God to serve us but I do not condone being a "slave driver". My horse enjoys working. He loves going on leisurely trail rides. He always comes to meet me at the gate for a ride. I see him in the pasture looking depressed and watching the field where we ride just waiting to get out with me. If horses were not meant for riding, why does God heal the crippled during horse therapy. I have seen miracles happen through riding. Even the people who practice Haute Ecole ride!

Annie:
With all due respect I will leave theology out of it...I think "God" will understand the parameters of correct riding without causing harm. (natural collection, not more than 15 minutes at a time etc) But honestly, if we are going to bring these ideas into scientific fact (it's biology, not mysticism) then I will depart from the conversation. I have no interest in discussing religion.

Traditional Haute Ecole is very harmful to the horse. Alexander has developed an understanding within his relationship, to perform certain HE elements, however, he no longer performs them while mounted.

The Horse was NEVER meant to "serve" us. I absolutely CANNOT tolerate such ideas.
If this is where this conversation is going, I will have no part in it.

Me: I came to you for tips but maybe it was a better idea to avoid eachother............

Annie: I agree. I get the feeling you did not want to be friends for the advice. There was none of that energy in your words, only defense for your treatment of an animal.
I think when the time is right and you are ready to stop all harm to your horse, you will be able to find the proper guidance.
Good luck!

Me: Please do not call me an animal abuser. I am not one at ALL
 
#32 ·
I don't mind Nevzorov so long as he doesn't try to force his methods on me. I like the idea of bitless and bridleless, but I'm gonna teach it on my terms and I don't want some PETA chick screaming at me and telling me I'm cruel wen my horses live better than I do.
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#33 ·
I don't mind Nevzorov so long as he doesn't try to force his methods on me. I like the idea of bitless and bridleless, but I'm gonna teach it on my terms and I don't want some PETA chick screaming at me and telling me I'm cruel wen my horses live better than I do.
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Agreed. He (and anyone else, for that matter) can do what they like with their horses, and I'll do what I like with mine. Live and let live, Happiness all around. :wink:

I'm all for partnership, but it won't be 50-50. When the chips are down, it's my way, no highway option for the horse. I consider Scout a friend; he certainly seems to enjoy my presence, and I know I enjoy his. But, we are not equals. If I'm the leader, as I should be for the safety and comfort of all involved, how can we be equals?

At any rate, the fanaticism seems to come from the grand popularization of the worst case scenarios of "riders", "trainers" and "competitors"; and people who don't know any better assuming that the rest of the horse world is the same. Add a little anthropomorphizing, assume that horses suffer emotionally when they don't self-actualize, that they follow the same thought-process as humans do, or whatever the argument of the day is, and some, erm... interesting ideas emerge.

People don't need bits, whips, or spurs to be abusive, and most people are certainly capable of using them kindly and correctly with good instruction and practice. Yes, any bit can be a torture device in the wrong hands, but in the right hands it can be the equivalent of a T1 line from the rider's mind to the horse's.
 
#37 ·
"I truly believe that we can develop a relationship with a horse built on trust and friendship, employing equality in our dealings, rather than dominance and submission. Those things belong in bedroom games, not while dealing with a gentle, intelligent, sentient creature like the horse. I do not think the horse was created for riding. There are other and better ways to be around a horse, to stimulate and enjoy a horse, than sitting on his back causing harm to their bodies."
What?! Ak-ward! She could have phrased that less -cough- uncomfortable sounding.
 
#38 ·
paintsrule, totally what I was noticing. There is a slight sexuality about what she's saying that kind of frightened me and made me wonder.
:rofl:

Nevertheless, I sent her a long, thought out comment on her blog which will probably be ignored, but you never know.
 
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