2 Things: Rushing Jumps, and Engaging the Hindquarters
 
 

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2 Things: Rushing Jumps, and Engaging the Hindquarters

This is a discussion on 2 Things: Rushing Jumps, and Engaging the Hindquarters within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Get a horse to engage its hindquarters without rushing
  • How to get a horse to engage its back end over jumps

 
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    09-24-2009, 09:12 PM
  #1
Weanling
2 Things: Rushing Jumps, and Engaging the Hindquarters

1) Yes, Beau is one of those horses who rushes jumps. If I keep CONSTANT pressure on the reins he -will- slow down, but obvs. he throws his head up and such because all that pressure can't be pleasant.

My question on this is: I am assuming I should do more things such as circles before jumps to keep him slow instead of just hauling on the reins. He doesn't listen to half-halts (yet).


2) I just read somewhere in the Dressage forum about a horse having his hind end up underneath him even though his nose was in the air.

My question on this is: Is it indeed possible to work on relaxing his jaw/relaxing at the poll, and engaging the hindquarters separately? He will drop onto the vertical if I ask him to (close the inside leg, steady outside rein, and gently squeeze the inside rein, once), but he can't really hold that at the canter yet, nor does he really step underneath himself. However, I have felt him step up underneath himself at the canter several times. Which should I concentrate on more? Or should I work on them separately and put them together?

Also, he gets underneath himself more at the canter than at the trot it seems? Or, it is just more noticable? I'm not really sure how it is 'supposed' to feel at the trot..

Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
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    09-24-2009, 09:17 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Only thing I can think of about rushing jumps is that you circle before the jump.
     
    09-24-2009, 09:37 PM
  #3
Trained
Gymntastics, gymnastics, gymnastics! Grids are seriously miracle workers on all jumping problems. Set something up like: X-bounce-Vertical-1 stride-Vertical-2 strides-Oxer. If he rushes, he crashes into jumps, simple. You can leave the striding long at the start but as he starts actually slowing and using his body, you can make it shorter so he really has to sit back and bascule over the jumps.
     
    09-24-2009, 09:38 PM
  #4
Trained
Another thing, instead of focussing on slowing, try focussing on shortening and getting a nice, short, bouncy canter. Worked a ton with my old jumper who pulled like a steam train!
     
    09-24-2009, 09:43 PM
  #5
Weanling
I am definitely going to ask my trainer to help me set up some grids in a few days.

Anyone have any answers to the second half of the post? N_n
     
    09-24-2009, 09:49 PM
  #6
Trained
I would work on getting him working underneath himself before worrying about his headset. When he is working properly a headset will come easier and the right muscles will start to develop.
     
    09-24-2009, 10:25 PM
  #7
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot    
I would work on getting him working underneath himself before worrying about his headset. When he is working properly a headset will come easier and the right muscles will start to develop.
That's what I was thinking. It seems more.. important to get him underneath himself (I know he can do it because he has the most incredible canter when he does) than to worry about headset, although a lot of people do stress "long and low" which does have to do with stretching down onto the vertical. I'd assume that once I've got him stepping up underneath himself consistently, I can ask for him to relax his poll/jaw WHILE doing that and it should come much more easily?
     
    09-24-2009, 10:53 PM
  #8
Trained
Definately. Any frame you get while he is not working properly will not be true and will also be harder for him. Once he is engaged and working forward and together it will be much easier.
     
    09-25-2009, 12:16 AM
  #9
Yearling
Long and low only stretches the whole topline, it doesn't really do much for impulsion of the hind end on a "green" horse. I would work on getting a nice, consistent uphill canter and then start doing shortenings and lengthenings. This will help your canter, his balance, help develop natural carriage and vertical flexion as well as help with his rushing.

The problem with horses that rush is that they only have two speeds in a gait: fast and faster. You need to add collection and extension to each gait. Starting with the trot. Open your hip angles and let your hips move with him, even pushing if you have to, when you want him to lengthen his trot. REMEMBER, don't forsake tempo and pace, you want his legs moving no faster you just want them extending longer. Work on making him fling out his legs farther not faster. That is a true lengthening.

Also, for collection you need him to slow his leg movements without slowing the tempo. You want to sit tall, close your hip angles and slow your hip movements so that he slows his legs to match your body.

When you can extend and shorten his strides on the FLAT, then you can start doing it over poles at the walk and canter. It's difficult and you will both make mistakes learning how to adjust your striding to get the perfect "takeoff" over the poles. That's why it's just poles, so if you goof up you're not crashing into a fence. When you can keep him consistent and listening to your striding changes over the poles then you can start doing small fences, grids, bounces, etc. Once he learns to respect your aids to slow or lengthen and he develops the muscle tone and muscle memory of the correct way to carry himself you will have solved the rushing problem.

Another side note is that a horse that gets rushy and doesn't have the basic flatwork foundation for stride regulation, collection and extension generally won't benefit from gridwork to slow them down per say. They will either rocket launch through the grids at 90 miles an hour just flinging out their legs or have a total mental breakdown because they don't know how to use their bodies to get through them.

You might get lucky and he might do ok in a grid but my guess is that long lines and hunter courses are your problems, and just because he can stride right through a tight grid doesn't mean he can do a nice 6 or 7 stride line on a hunter course. Since you said that you were working with a trainer and you are learning the power of finite riding as in when you ask for vertical flexion then I gave you some more advanced things to try.

The other options for rushers are to circle them around a low fence until they are relaxed, then let them take the fence. If they rush, they keep circling until they calm down and then you take the fence. The key to that exercise is that they never know if they are jumping or just doing mindless circles so there's no point in getting excited right? This exercise can get boring with a stubborn or very hot horse and it doesn't correct the underlying problem, but it does help them to mentally prepare better for a fence instead of getting overeager and charging each one. Grids have their place, but they are more for getting lazy horses to snap up their knees, actually bascule, learn to land light on their feet, etc. Hope this helps and let me know if you need any specific exercises I can give you more details.
     
    09-25-2009, 01:01 AM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Another side note is that a horse that gets rushy and doesn't have the basic flatwork foundation for stride regulation, collection and extension generally won't benefit from gridwork to slow them down per say. They will either rocket launch through the grids at 90 miles an hour just flinging out their legs or have a total mental breakdown because they don't know how to use their bodies to get through them.
This may be true, but I have never seen a horse/rider combination that didn't benefit from grids. The only jumping trainer I have ever ridden under, Trevor Morris (realtion to George Morris? I wonder...) is also a huge advocate of grids. All of his two day clinics spend at least the first day working on grids alone.

My old jumper was a 6yo 16h ASH. And holy cow could he pull! I got more arm muscle than my bf from riding that horse, lol. He could lengthen/collect and all of that, he just loved jumping and as such, got excited and rushed. A ton of gridwork and teaching him that I didn't necessarily want slower, just shorter, was what turned him around. Although he was always unbeatable in speed classes :]
     

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