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3 yr old refusing to give to pressure

This is a discussion on 3 yr old refusing to give to pressure within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-15-2012, 07:32 AM
      #11
    Weanling
    I have to say that I agree with Cherie. I have really nice respectful horses, they come to the gate one by one to be greeted by our family. They are very willing to go on trailrides. They aren't perfect they are just very willing horses. This did I think happen almost a little by accident. I rarely treat, I just forget. When I take a horse to the roundpen to lunge or ride I just forget, I'm focused on just getting the job done and it doesn't occur to me to bring treats. I do treat but not when there is any work involved for either of us, and it never happens on a consistant basis, I just forget Through the ups and downs of owning horses, I've noticed that a lot of horses are given these wonderful treats and lots of praise to only be treated like crap by their own horses. I call it begging the horse to like them, or behave. Just my opinion that happened by accident
         
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        08-15-2012, 08:17 AM
      #12
    Foal
    Along the lines of the positive reinforcement suggestions, have you considered trying clicker training? You can click (and immediately treat) for any movement of the back legs and then shape it into a full movement. Negative reinforcement (removing discomfort) is effective, but as others have mentioned we often end up desensitising our animals (I work with dogs) to increased pressure. Meaning if you have a willful horse, you'll always find yourself having to increase the amount of force you use in order to achieve the desired finished behaviour, and once he gets used to that, you'll have to increase it again. Doesn't make for very fun training for you or the horse. I think in order for training to be effective, it has to be enjoyable for everyone involved. Pain is definitely a motivator, but it isn't the only motivator. Find out what the horse likes and make him work for it.

    The thing about clicker training is timing. The better your timing is, the clearer you will be to your horse, and as you learn with it, the more behaviours you'll be able to apply it to and who knows, you could very well end up with a horse who is offering all types of desirable behaviours because he has learned to enjoy training. If you're interested in it, try and find some dog trainers local to you that use clicker training - oftentimes they will have worked with horses as well, or will be able to refer you to someone with horse experience. But since all animals learn the same (research "four quadrant learning theory"), it doesn't matter whether you're working with a horse or a dog. Heck, one of my mentors clicker trained a goldfish!

    I agree that as a necessary first step, you should get the horse vetted to make sure he doesn't have any pain or discomfort.
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        08-15-2012, 12:48 PM
      #13
    Foal
    Cherie,

    Okay...I have read through your post about 5 times now to make sure I really get it. I'm trying to go out again tonight to see the horse and will see how we do. I'm not sure how to explain to owner that they need to quit being so nagging with the whip in the round pen, but I am going to be nagging with the baling twine for the backup.....
         
        08-15-2012, 12:50 PM
      #14
    Foal
    Yes. I am with you. I am not a "treater" either. I have also had to school all my boarders on this with their own horses because I have seen them get soooo spoiled that they become aggressive.
         
        08-15-2012, 01:00 PM
      #15
    Foal
    You make a good point about doing what is good for the particular horse. While I may not be into treats....if all else fails (and it's done properly), maybe that's what motivates the horse!
         
        08-15-2012, 01:52 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    @Cherie

    You "hate whips" but will " I quietly take out the baling wire, unfold the first fold, jerk the lead-rope 2 or 3 times hard and I whack his shoulder 5 or 6 times while I yell "Back!" at him. I will spank his shoulder until he backs up 20 steps or more. It works. He will listen. His ears will come up.

    Please tell me how baling WIRE is better than a whip??

    Sorry, but I feel that is cruel and unusual punishment.
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        08-15-2012, 05:24 PM
      #17
    Trained
    I havent read all the posts, but I would try to ask as lightly as you possibly can. Start with looking at the body part you want him to move. For example, if you want him to move his hip, start by looking at his hip. Then tap the whip towards his hip, starting gently and gradually tapping harder and harder. If he still hasnt gotten the picture, start tapping his hip lightly with the whip, getting stronger and stronger until he moves.

    Remember to always reward the slightest try ! Even if the first few times he only shifts his weight, that is ok, he is trying.

    I have found that in a lot of cases [especially with smart horses] you have to take a step back and quiet your body language.

    Good luck =]
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        08-15-2012, 05:39 PM
      #18
    Foal
    Positive reinforcement training rewards behaviours that have taken place. It's not a method that relies on bribes. Bribes create very pushy animals and if this is happening, the technique definitely needs work.
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        08-15-2012, 06:31 PM
      #19
    Super Moderator
    I am forwarding these posts to a friend, who has a freind with a spoiled horse. The horse was poorly Parellied and is now a bad tempered fellow . Very unwilling to move forward.

    Watching her work with the horse is painful to me because she is always in the "gray" area with him. She is like the parent who says, "Don't you do that ! If you do that I am going to count to three and put you in a time out. ONE.. . . . TWO . . . . . . I said, if you don't stop doing that I am going to count to three and you're going to be sorry! ONE . . . TWO . . . . . . . ."
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        08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FaydesMom    
    @Cherie

    You "hate whips" but will " I quietly take out the baling wire, unfold the first fold, jerk the lead-rope 2 or 3 times hard and I whack his shoulder 5 or 6 times while I yell "Back!" at him. I will spank his shoulder until he backs up 20 steps or more. It works. He will listen. His ears will come up.

    Please tell me how baling WIRE is better than a whip??

    Sorry, but I feel that is cruel and unusual punishment.


    I am a bit curious about why this homemade tool is better, too. Not that I think it's cruel, far from it. But, it means you have to be awfully close to the hrose to apply it and I'd worry, with a spoiled horse, that he might cow kick me or strike out at me. A whip would give me more reach .
         

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