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4 yr old that refuses to be tied up

This is a discussion on 4 yr old that refuses to be tied up within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-21-2013, 06:47 PM
      #21
    Started
    I didn't read the other posts, but a tying problem is really a yield-to-pressure problem. Approach & retreat, gently, first to lower the poll from the fingertips, then to back up a step, using the hoof you choose, from the same feel at the poll (& some on nose of halter), till you approach & retreat on a hitching rail.
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        08-21-2013, 09:35 PM
      #22
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    You MUST have a halter that won't break.
    This scares me that you would recommend this. You must have a halter that breaks. Otherwise you may very well end up with broken neck. I have seen it happen. If (as you say) your training is set back because your horse broke his halter, at least you still have a horse to train. Always, always remember safety first.
         
        08-21-2013, 09:57 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    This scares me that you would recommend this. You must have a halter that breaks. Otherwise you may very well end up with broken neck. I have seen it happen. If (as you say) your training is set back because your horse broke his halter, at least you still have a horse to train. Always, always remember safety first.
    I agree with Corporal. You NEED to have a halter that won't break. If they pull back, and break free, they'll just learn that's all they have to do to get away.

    However, the horse should not be tied until he knows how to respond to pressure first. That's why I said groundwork, groundwork, groundwork first. And do not tie the horse until the horse knows how to respond to pressure in a stressful situation. Those horses you hear of flipping over backward and breaking something have not been taught to give to pressure in a stressful situation, so they panic and freak and cause bodily harm to themselves.

    I do like the blocker tie rings as well. The horse doesn't learn they can break free, yet it also discourages them from pulling because they have nothing to pull against.
         
        08-21-2013, 10:05 PM
      #24
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by beau159    
    I agree with Corporal. You NEED to have a halter that won't break. If they pull back, and break free, they'll just learn that's all they have to do to get away.

    However, the horse should not be tied until he knows how to respond to pressure first. That's why I said groundwork, groundwork, groundwork first. And do not tie the horse until the horse knows how to respond to pressure in a stressful situation. Those horses you hear of flipping over backward and breaking something have not been taught to give to pressure in a stressful situation, so they panic and freak and cause bodily harm to themselves.

    I do like the blocker tie rings as well. The horse doesn't learn they can break free, yet it also discourages them from pulling because they have nothing to pull against.
    100% agree! Which is what I was dealing with. My horse broke every halter, broke away from every cross tie, ran away when someone wasn't holding onto his lead.

    I was a novice horse handler.

    I worked with him as described below (in my post) and now he can wear a halter made of grass blades and won't think of breaking it. He has learned that it's okay to be tied which is awesome because I never thought I'd be able to take him trail riding!!

    All it takes is a fool proof plan, patience, clear communication, and you'll end up with a happy horse and a safer horse.

    ~~

    Drives me crazy when people blame objects for their problems instead of being aware of their own lack/neglect of training.
         
        08-21-2013, 10:07 PM
      #25
    Weanling
    I agree that you need a halter and lead that will not break. I remember one old western pleasure mare I retrained. Her owners always used a leather halter so she wouldn't get hurt. She was an old pro at pulling back and snapping a halter to go do her own thing. It was to the point that they led her in a bridle all the time because she hadn't figured out how to break them yet.

    In the first fifteen minutes of dropping this mare off I saw her break NINE halters. NINE! She knew exactly how to rear up, turn her head to the side and flip over onto her side to put the right pressure on to break a halter.

    She went straight into a rope halter and we did groundwork for a few days before I introduced her to the blocker tie ring. This 20 year old horse had never stood tied a day in her life, just the basics in groundwork over a few days and 20 minutes later she could stand tied like an old pro.

    I'll recommend blocker tie rings till i'm blue in the face because they really are the safest, easiest way to teach a horse to tie without the risk of injury.
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        08-21-2013, 10:29 PM
      #26
    Foal
    Thanks for everything guys! I agree to have a halter that doesn't break and I will purchase a blocker tie ring very soon. And just in case, for the people who think opposite, I will keep a knife on me in case something goes wrong. But I'm definitely going to work on his pressure and release before I try tying him.

    I appreciate everyone's opinions!
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        08-22-2013, 11:56 AM
      #27
    Green Broke
    I hate tying threads almost as much as rearing threads.

    1.) The horse must know how to yield to pressure. Put a halter and lead on this horse and then turn him/her out. Let her step on the lead.

    2.) When the horse is tied the equipment cannot break. If the horse learns to break equipment then they will. I tie with a neck rope (no slip Bowline knot) that ran thru the halter to the fixed object.. one wrap around the fixed object then on to a second fixed object where the rope was tied off with a slip knot. Have a VERY sharp knife so it all heck busts loose you can cut the rope.

    3.) There are many ways to tie a horse. A lot of people train them with a high line. Others use the blocker tie. I knew someone who used a garage door spring attached to a beam over head in an indoor arena and tied a rope to that with a ring on the end.. and they tied the horse to that and let them fight it out. The high tie made pulling back unsuccessful and the spring would give and take. It was pretty brilliant.

    4.) Remember.. when you tie a horse to anything fixed stuff can happen. Bad stuff. The horse can break a neck or a leg. The horse can become impaled on a fence or post. The horse can hurt you. You are taking a living thing that weighs 1200 or more pounds and fixing it to a solid object. Panic and adrenaline are not your friends. Have a sharp knife in case there is a wreck.

    5.) Most important is that most horses do learn to stand tied and don't die.

    Everything you do with a horse has its risks. This goes for riding them, tying them, ground work, driving them in harness, training them, jumping them, racing them, reining them, working cattle.. the list goes on. Any of those things can lead to horse or handler being badly hurt.

    The trick is to work to reduce risk and still get the horse trained with no one getting hurt or dying. Mostly it works. Sometimes it does not.

    And that is why I hate rearing and tying threads.
         
        08-22-2013, 12:08 PM
      #28
    Showing
    Also, nobody ever points out that a horse can get hurt just as bad by breaking free as they can by fighting something unbreakable. Around here, there have been many more instances where a horse set back, the halter/lead broke, and they flipped over and seriously injured themselves or they got loose and ran out into a road and got hit by a car.
         
        08-22-2013, 01:26 PM
      #29
    Foal
    I watched a friends horse break free from being tied to a post (they were saddling her) and when she realized she was free she took off in a dead run and went right through a barbed wire fence. Bad deal. That's one thing I will not do. I never saddle my young horses when they are tied. I usually hold the lead while I'm saddling or have my dad help me out.
         
        08-22-2013, 02:09 PM
      #30
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    This scares me that you would recommend this. You must have a halter that breaks. Otherwise you may very well end up with broken neck. I have seen it happen. If (as you say) your training is set back because your horse broke his halter, at least you still have a horse to train. Always, always remember safety first.
    I am sorry that you are frightened by tying a horse with a halter that doesn't break. It frightens me to think of a horse that routinely and habitually breaks the lead or halter or both and crosses a busy highway or street. MANY suburban barns are located close to them, and horses ARE hit by cars. Sometimes it's fatal, most times it results in a permanent injury. It isn't impossible to train a horse to calmly tie. I wasn't satisfied with my 2 geldings tie habits last year, so I tied them up 6 hours at a time while I gardened...some 30 feet away. NOW, they will stand quiet and tied just as along as I damx well please.
    It is IMPERATIVE to teach your horse to tie. I always tie mine with a quick release, EVEN THOUGH I live on a quiet N-S street in a tiny town where the cats lay in the middle of the street, unimperiled.
    Honestly, you don't know what you are talking about. Seeing a horse accidently hurt or kill himself doesn't validate your opinion. If it was YOUR horse, then YOU were negligent in your horse training. You are frightening people new to horses. If YOU are reading this, have the same problem and cannot figure out how to use any of these methods, OR you don't feel competent, THIS is something that any good trainer can fix FOR you, just FYI.
    With any of the several brands of tie rings YOU, the trainer control how much play in the ~20' rope that you are using to train. With a halter tied to a long lead and dragging, it is humorous to watch the horse the first time he scares himself, and it's a relief when he figures that he is the one holding the halter down. The result is that your horse won't panic when he steps through the lead, which ends up between his legs. He'll just wait for you patiently to help him. Heck, my old herd leader, "Tyke" (1970-1998, RIP) got tangled up in a lead tied to a tree. My DH told him, "Sit Down," which he did, then my DH untied the lead for him.
    Remember, I learned the method in my other post from a pony farm training YEARLINGS, and horses under 2yo are much more vulnerable to breaking their necks than a 4yo.
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