Absolute Refusal to Lunge
   

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Absolute Refusal to Lunge

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        03-14-2013, 11:51 PM
      #1
    Yearling
    Absolute Refusal to Lunge

    As spring gets closer, I'm wanting to do more work with Chance to get him past his nervousness and disrespect. I find he is more disrespectful towards women, and an absolute nervous wreck around men. So being a woman, I have one tick against me.

    My instructor is going to help me with this problem, but I would like some other options to break through this if my instructor gets stumped, too.

    Chance refuses to lunge. Its not an "imma just stand here because I can" its a deliberate "imma move so you can't get at my drive line, and do all these funky steps when you try to make me move".
    But this is a recent development. Before I could get him to do it half way, before he would turn on his own accord and simply "pace".

    I have gotten him to "lunge" twice. Once using a CA method of tapping him to make him move, and when I see him thinking about stopping, or moving the way I don't want him to, to tap. He threw a couple fits at me to try and intimidate me, like rearing, but I just kept him moving. Lots of direction change in that one.

    The second, was purely out of schooling him. He reared and attempted to rip the lead from me, so I got after him and he lunged. Try to change direction, and he refused, blocking me and everything.

    He is a gent under saddle and listens, just his ground work is a bit to be desired for. He has head butted me in my stomach a couple times before because I wouldn't let him paw or dance. He rubs his head against and kind of pushes.

    I want his respect before I even think about doing "trust exercises" and I believe if I can get a basic lunge for respect down, I can maybe build on that.
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        03-14-2013, 11:53 PM
      #2
    Showing
    What happens when you trot him in hand?
         
        03-14-2013, 11:57 PM
      #3
    Yearling
    He is great! He listens, watches, and stops right as I stop.
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        03-15-2013, 12:18 AM
      #4
    Yearling
    I would stay with CA method personally. Start at the beginning of his "lunging for respect" program.
    Corporal and Thunderspark like this.
         
        03-15-2013, 12:38 AM
      #5
    Yearling
    With the tapping, I wonder if it actually does anything, or if it just annoys him...
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        03-15-2013, 12:43 AM
      #6
    Banned
    Has he been taught to lunge by anyone else before you got him? Is he just completely flipping you the bird? I have to be honest but it sounds to me like that's what he's doing......(sorry)

    Have you striped his butt to make him move off? I mean spanked him like you mean it? Like run at him and whomped his butt?

    (Yes and I don't think the 'tapping' is being taken to heart by your horse....he is probably moving out of annoyance rather than obedience and respect....)
    Corporal likes this.
         
        03-15-2013, 12:59 AM
      #7
    Yearling
    I am pretty sure he is flipping the bird. His previous owner was a woman, who became so scared of him, she was selling him for meat before we got him. But, we think he had previous owners who trained him to the teeth, but "cowboyed" him in the worst sense, as he knows A LOT. Its crazy.

    Like, with my instructor, when he handles him, you can see him absolutely at wits end, and when we did his hooves, he leaned so much -away- we had to have someone holding him up or else he would have fallen or hurt my instructor by ripping it away.

    As for actually gotten at him, I've tried the come to jesus moments by waving my arms around, stomping growling, and attempting to make him back, but he just takes a step, and stares at me like I'm a crazy lady.

    Before I got as experienced as I am now (about a year and a half ago) he has threatened to kick at me for pecking, so I think that you are right in the sense is more annoyed than anything. I don't want him to do it out of annoyance, I want an actual learning process.

    He doesn't scare me, and I know he acts like a true ass because he was allowed to be that way. He is so weird...
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        03-15-2013, 01:00 AM
      #8
    Foal
    How are you asking him to lunge? If he's never been properly taught to lunge before, and you're swinging the whip while struggling to point him in the right direction, you're just going to look like a flailing person smacking a whip, and he's going to either freak out or fight back (which it sounds like he has done).

    If you're working with a new horse or you've never lunged your horse before, don't assume they know how to do it. In fact the same could be said of everything. Never assume a horse knows how to lead, never assume they know how to wear a saddle, never assume they know how to pick their feet up. Assume they are a horse, an animal that runs away from predators and eats grass and makes little horses. This is your biggest ally when working with horses.

    When I first lunged Ben, I did the swing-the-lungewhip method of lunging a horse, and he freaked out, bolted, and hit the end of the lungeline and dragged me with him. The second time I lunged him, he lunged absolutely perfectly like he was a pro at it. That's because I taught him how to lunge. You have to be able to push the horse's shoulders away from you so the horse can be in the lunging "position," then cluck or kiss for the horse to move forward, and hit the brakes by pushing his hindquarters out so he swings himself into a stop. If he doesn't know how to set himself up properly, your only real option is to just kinda chase him into the lunge.

    *When I say "push," I mean put pressure on them, not actually pushing them*
         
        03-15-2013, 01:08 AM
      #9
    Yearling
    I would put a bag on the end of my lunge line and act like I was going to kill him if he didn't move his behind... Lol... Sometimes that requires some contact from the lunge whip. My filly is particularly erm, difficult? At times. She's reeeaaally lazy (or acts it) and will just drag her trot so slow you'd think she was being trained to be a western pleasure horse or something. When I lunge her, to get her to trot with less emphasis on the forehand and more impulsion from the backend, I use a very thin dish towel tied to the loop on the end of my lunge line. It's more effective, IMO, than the latter. Sometimes she just acts like she is too tired to trot, I've never asked her to canter on the lunge and we've never lunged more than 10 minutes so there's no physical way she is tired but, I have to act like I'm going to get at her if she doesn't start to get her moving.

    She will also sometimes try to do what you're describing with the fancy footwork to avoid what she doesn't want to do (lunge). She'll spin on her hind end and her forehand, acting like isnt that what you wanted?when I try to send her out on the Lunge. Like I said before, you just need to get at her until she realizes you're not going to take no for an answer. Sometimes it helps to start in a round pen with no lunge line.
         
        03-15-2013, 01:12 AM
      #10
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deschutes    
    I am pretty sure he is flipping the bird. His previous owner was a woman, who became so scared of him, she was selling him for meat before we got him. But, we think he had previous owners who trained him to the teeth, but "cowboyed" him in the worst sense, as he knows A LOT. Its crazy.

    Like, with my instructor, when he handles him, you can see him absolutely at wits end, and when we did his hooves, he leaned so much -away- we had to have someone holding him up or else he would have fallen or hurt my instructor by ripping it away.

    As for actually gotten at him, I've tried the come to jesus moments by waving my arms around, stomping growling, and attempting to make him back, but he just takes a step, and stares at me like I'm a crazy lady.

    Before I got as experienced as I am now (about a year and a half ago) he has threatened to kick at me for pecking, so I think that you are right in the sense is more annoyed than anything. I don't want him to do it out of annoyance, I want an actual learning process.

    He doesn't scare me, and I know he acts like a true ass because he was allowed to be that way. He is so weird...
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Yup! I think you absolutely should up the anti with this guy. I asked you if you've actually run at him and whomped his butt? Ask him to move off....if he doesn't pull that lunge line so his nose is turned into the circle and whomp his butt with that lunge whip, and I mean up and over his rump. This has to be done fast......if you do it once and do it aggressively enough, he will get the message pretty quick. Sometimes you need to make it uncomfortable for a horse to make it realize that it's easier to move off than just ignore you.

    If we are riding a horse and he doesn't move.......we apply our leg (ask) if he doesn't move we give him incentive with a crop......it's no different of the ground.
    Poseidon likes this.
         

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