Absolute Refusal to Lunge

Well I may have my guesstimate of length wrong but just know I start them on shorter line not using lunge line at fullest maybe 1/3 to 1/2 seldom ever had a horse kick out to me or i'm far enough out of kick range if they decided to. At the short length in line you want them to move out slow,not push them for any speed just calm forward motion. I have not encountered any problems teaching my horses to lunge

You don't want a 12' lead. You want a 25' lounge line. But 12' leads can be had. I got my cotton 12' lead at TSC.
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"As for actually gotten at him, I've tried the come to jesus moments by waving my arms around, stomping growling, and attempting to make him back, but he just takes a step, and stares at me like I'm a crazy lady."

This from post 7 is your problem.

You are not doing a HCTJM. You are acting foolish and accomplishing nothing except telling the horse that you have not got the ability to run the show.

If you can't lunge, can't make him back and can't get much of anything from him? You are much less experienced than you think you are.

Being "good" under saddle may suit him, it may also be you aren't experienced enough there either to see the problems.

Quit pussyfooting around, find someone that can help you learn how to handle horses, and if your "trainer" is not doing something to make you a better horse handler, which apparently they aren't, find someone else.

And if they have been trying and you are stuck into the "but I love my horsey" mode? Quit it. Listen to the trainer.

It does NOT take days to get a horse to respect you and to do what you asked, especially on the ground. It should not even take hours.

Your handling mechanics are seriously lacking here, and until you change them, you will get nowhere. Your "corrections" lack substance, and are only serving to tell horse that you have no clue what you are doing, and that it doesn't have to mind you.

If the horse hasn't a clue but leads well, I will switch the lead to my left hand so there is now about 5' of lead between my hand and the horse. As we walk I will extend my left hand out in front of me, gradually start facing him as we walk and encourage him to circle me by raising my right hand toward his hip. My body continues to turn and I may wind up walking on the spot. My energy is low to keep his low. If he gives me half a circle he is rewarded by my making sure the lead rope has float in it and I turn my back to him to remove all pressure for 15-20 seconds. Then we will try again. You need to build in small increments. If he has trouble go back to something he can easily do then begin again. Keep the first sessions to about 20 min. There should be no timeline in your mind or agenda. Appreciate small accomplishments as they will all come together.

Do you know that he does know how to lunge? Or is he just not understanding what you're asking him for? Will he move his shoulders away from your lunge whip? Does he know how to move forward with a cue from behind?

The first thing you need to do IMO is see if he really knows all the parts of lunging or not.

I know and understand that I am inexperienced and know my limitations. That is why, from the first post, I stated my instructor will be helping me.

I am not going in this with an inflated ego that I can have some "magikul kure" to fix him. But ninety percent of the time, I am likely going to have to go at this myself because he has other obligations. If I make a fool of myself, that's fine, I will find a way to fix it. If I make a mistake, it will be corrected. I am not expecting perfection nor am I expecting to know everything. This is a learning process, and one I am willing to accept all pitfalls.
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I will ask my instructor if he thinks he can or not, as he would have more experience to state so, as all I have is speculation and spotty work time with the horse.
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Your horse sounds just like my pony - who knows FULL well how to lunge, but also knows that if he turns to face me I can't easily drive him away.
I found a few ways to fix it - the first was yielding his shoulder - but by the time I got out far enough he had turned back to face me (I'm sure he'd also have his middle finger facing at me if he had fingers too). The next was to snap the stick toward his front end aggressively, forcing him out, which often lead to a mild explosion before he'd start lunging - and each direction change required the same sort of handling. He was seriously spoiled before coming to me and had 'attacked' his trainer who was line-driving/lunging him which I'm fairly certain is why he had no respect for anyone.
What I found to work and leave a permanent effect was to yield his hind end aggressively. I would step toward his drive line and he'd turn to face me, so I 'chased' the line - aggressively yielding his hind end out away from me until he'd be circling me wider and wider and lunging. This only took 2 times of this before he'd let me get to his driveline without fussing, now he lunges fairly well - still has his hissy-fits though.

Yep, sounds exactly like him, Punks. : p. I am quite interested to see how he reacts to my instructor, especially with more demanding tactics.

Now, for chasing the hind quarters, I'm not quite sure how well that would work. Wouldn't he just yield them normally, even with the use of the whip? Perhaps I'm not visualizing this properly.
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Deschutes,

Did you by chance read my post?