Absolute Refusal to Lunge - Page 4

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Absolute Refusal to Lunge

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    03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Even a respectful horse who has never been lunged will not understand what you want. My first herd was for my lessons, 1985-1994. They were worked/ridden for lessons and my hobby >1,000 hours/year, and very well broken. I dallied with lunging but they looked at me like I was speaking a different language when I stood in the center, lunge line attached to lunging halter, whip at 90 degrees towards their tail. If I had know about pointing the whip towards the neck and/or girth I might have gotten somewhere. As they needed no additional training and could be ridden by idiots, I saw no need to pursue it.
Agree with all above. This is a retraining issue. CA's method is excellent for this.
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    03-15-2013, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Deschutes    
Yep, sounds exactly like him, Punks. : p. I am quite interested to see how he reacts to my instructor, especially with more demanding tactics.

Now, for chasing the hind quarters, I'm not quite sure how well that would work. Wouldn't he just yield them normally, even with the use of the whip? Perhaps I'm not visualizing this properly.
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I'm trying to analyze how I did it - it's the sort of thing I can do but not put words too xD
I would yield his hind end, each time taking a little step back - getting further behind him, until I was 'pushing' him forward, rather than outward? Words are failing me sorry :P
    03-15-2013, 02:49 PM
PT is right--just has some lidocaine of the tongue. ROFL
Actually, I was going to say that working on the lunge starts with ground manners when leading, and that is same as dancing. When you dance your partner (THE man, or you as the horse owner) has a firm hand and uses weight and direction to ask his partner (THE women, or the horse, as your partner) to move, turn, etc. When it's done right, the cues are absolutely invisible, JUST like we want when we ride.
Using CA's method, you ask, then TELL your horse to move, progressing from
--please, move
--Please, Move
This is the "Method" in a nutshell, asking with the least amount of pressure, over and over again, until your horse understands to move with the least amount of pressure.
You start with loose lunging and DEMAND that your horse changes directions by turning to the inside.
You never stop training and your never stop using the method. You have to discipline yourSELF to not accept any sloppiness in ground manners, even when your horse has gotten good at it. It's very much the same and disciplining children, but your horse won't understand "Debby Weaver's" speech from last Wednesday's "The Neighbors" episode, about the unwritten contract. (Hulu it if you missed it--FUNNIEST show ON right now!)
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    03-16-2013, 01:23 PM
Thank you! He likes to rush when leading, my instructor has shown me how to work with him on that, and we have gotten better. So perhaps before lunge work, leading is in order?

He listens great jogging in hand, picks it up willingly, stops when I stop. But he also likes to move out, and loves to run, particularly when working so that may play a part. He gets bored easily, so I am thinking of making some thinking games out of it once we get the lunging down pat. The games would also helps his nerves, too.

I had previously thought of clicker training, but he's a food hound as it is and I guess got spoiled with treats. So I think that is off the table unfortunately.

I think I will draw a diagram... Or attempt, so I know if I'm understanding the yielding method. : p it isn't your fault, I'm just a very visual person, and stuff like this always takes some attempts at figuring it out.

Next weekend I get to see him, so hopefully the ground in the arena isn't a like a lake and we can do stuff.
    03-16-2013, 02:08 PM
Cancel that, I might just take him today and see what I can do.
    03-16-2013, 02:09 PM
WOW! I think your horse is Exactly like my pony xD
What I did to fix his pulling on the lead was just backing. I would lead him, if he pulled I'd stop and (without moving my body, still standing next to him) I'd give sharp jerks on the lead rope until he backed up (starting soft and building) and I'd stop when his nose was a bit behind my elbow. I did this several times until he realized he needs to always be at my elbow. It didn't take him long.

Now!!!! You said my magic words - clicker training. And you BET it helped my pony and his terribly over-active brain!! My pony came to our rescue several years ago - he was a beloved children's pet pony - he would let himself out of his stall every morning to have coco-puffs with the kids. He was smart and sweet and he ruled his roost. He came to our rescue and we quickly found a home for him. At his new home his job was to pony ride the new owners 11 grand kids on rare occasions. He lived in a paddock with 3 other very large geldings who bickered all the time - he was 3rd out of 4 in heirachy - he could beat up the submissive old guy. But needless to say his size difference left him some serious injuries. These went unnoticed by his family who thought all horses could live happily together so long as there was enough food and candy for everyone. He became pushy and aggressive - never being allowed to sleep and having tack put on his broken rib lead to a very violent little pony. He continually bit his pony-ride leaders, to which they would untack and put him away. No one was allowed to discipline his rudeness and no one tried to find out why he suddenly turned 'bad'. One day he finally had enough, he was being ground driven by a professional trainer - who was also giving a riding lesson in the same round pen? The pony spun around and attacked her, all four feet and teeth. They promptly loaded him on a trailer and dropped him back at our rescue.
At this point I was getting ready to move and my mare needed a companion at our new home. He would not be able to be rehomed - he's now a 'liability'. So I took him with me. He was a TERROR. His injuries healed and he slept a lot. But he would pull (or even break loose) on the lead, he bit constantly, he was just a general little snot.
I had decided to just let him 'live out his life' and not bother, he was my mare's companion and that's all - so I made him be mindful for being turned in and out, but otherwise left him unbothered.
Then I learned about Clicker Training on here. Being a biter and a mugger I ignored it at first. Then I thought 'well he can't get worse for it' So I looked it up and found that CT actually fixes those mugging-type horses.
Well I tried it. My pony is more polite than I've ever seen him, he no longer invades my space -ever. He does all sorts of silly tricks, he backs up, gives hugs, touches targets, kicks a football (I wanted him to fetch but he preferred kicking :P) and now he's learning unmounted agility. I also just got the OK from my vet that he's healed enough for driving, so I'm working on teaching him to drive now. Let me tell you!!! With his little mind and body working now, he is the best little pony I could have ever asked for!
Personally I use a mix of Traditional and Clicker training (mix of pressure+release+treat - mix of positive+negative reinforcement)

If you're interested in clicker training and want to learn the facts about it all, the psychology behind it and methods on how to do it effectively and keeping the horse respectful and behaving the entire time read this thread:
Clicker Training: Challenge Accepted
There's some fantastic information in there!!
    03-16-2013, 02:10 PM
Tiny, I did indeed. Thank you.

Sorry if I miss responses... Sometimes I respond right after a response, and I don't catch it!
    03-18-2013, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Deschutes    
He is great! He listens, watches, and stops right as I stop.
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Then lunge him with the lunge line and treat is like the leadrope and slowly back off more and more. Practice "sending" him away (be careful of kicking) and then bringing him back. Keep practicing until he can do this without issue.

It'll help him to understand what you want, versus what he has to guess about and probably leaves him frustrated.

Build on the good things.

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