advice for horse not turning where i want? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 01:08 PM
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Be patient with yourself, jmike. Learning to ride well takes time.

In his book "Dancing with Horses" Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling includes the tale of a noble caballero whose entire life had been devoted to horses. People loved just to watch him ride. On his deathbed at age 96, a tear came to his eye. His nephew said, "What's wrong, uncle. You've lived a long and blessed life, and this time comes for every man." The uncle replied, "That's true, nephew, but my death comes at a most inopportune time. It was just last week that I learned what it truly means to ride."

Take your time and enjoy the journey.
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post #12 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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I am patient and not in a real hurry, but I don't like not knowing, and I don't like leaving a problem un-fixed

It will happen when it happens, but that doesn't mean I won't do my best
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post #13 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 01:46 PM
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we really need a video so we can see what's going on. Too many variables here to give an answer on what the issue is without seeing it in process.
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post #14 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 01:59 PM
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I don't know if this will help your situation but with my mare I put on a lot of inside leg and so that when I pull her nose over the pressure of my leg pushes her hind end the way I want it to go. Sometimes we sidestepped the wrong way but once I got her bent around my leg I was able to give a quick squeeze that moves her forward the direction I want. Even though we sidestepped the wrong direction it helped line her up to move forward in the right direction so it wasn't a bad thing. My mare likes full calf contact on the inside leg at a turn, a little heel will get her pivoting on her hind. Took a lot of experiments to find what works. Hope that makes sense
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post #15 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countrylove View Post
I don't know if this will help your situation but with my mare I put on a lot of inside leg and so that when I pull her nose over the pressure of my leg pushes her hind end the way I want it to go. Sometimes we sidestepped the wrong way but once I got her bent around my leg I was able to give a quick squeeze that moves her forward the direction I want. Even though we sidestepped the wrong direction it helped line her up to move forward in the right direction so it wasn't a bad thing. My mare likes full calf contact on the inside leg at a turn, a little heel will get her pivoting on her hind. Took a lot of experiments to find what works. Hope that makes sense
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This sounds like disengaging as well as letting your horse drop it's shoulder and whole body to the outside when you turn. Which can cause issues in the long run depending on what you want to accomplish
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post #16 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by .Delete. View Post
This sounds like disengaging as well as letting your horse drop it's shoulder and whole body to the outside when you turn. Which can cause issues in the long run depending on what you want to accomplish
I've never noticed this issue but I'll be watching for it now. Thanks! And FWIW I'm just a trail rider too

ETA: I don't use this technique all the time just when she's being stubborn to turn. I always start with the lightest cues possible. She also is just one of those horses that prefer leg over rein.

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post #17 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 02:38 PM
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I've never noticed this issue but I'll be watching for it now. Thanks! And FWIW I'm just a trail rider too

ETA: I don't use this technique all the time just when she's being stubborn to turn. I always start with the lightest cues possible. She also is just one of those horses that prefer leg over rein.

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It will only cause issues if you're wanting your horse to start giving a lot of hip and staying between the reins for advanced maneuvers. If you don't plan on doing any of that (which I don't think you do) keep on keepin on!
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post #18 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 03:03 PM
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It will only cause issues if you're wanting your horse to start giving a lot of hip and staying between the reins for advanced maneuvers. If you don't plan on doing any of that (which I don't think you do) keep on keepin on!
No fancy stuff for this mare until I get her front dragging issue resolved and then still highly unlikely lol we like our back country over shows. But we do want to try some trail classes.
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post #19 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 03:24 PM
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Since you don't know much about the horse's background, and since it happens with your trainer as well, I'll tell this story. FWIW:

When I bought Mia, I was told she was "Perfect for a beginner!" I rode Mia in a sidepull halter for 2+ years. She initially didn't want to go the way I asked her to, but it was hit & miss. Eventually she got pretty consistent about turning left with a left opening rein, which is what you have to do with a sidepull - pull the head to that side, not back on the rein.

However, Mia became more nervous as I asked more of her, and we eventually had a 2 hour blowout where I couldn't get her to stop and I took off a lot of hair with the gentle sidepull halter.

She then sat unridden for 8 months while I took lessons and rode Trooper.

The lady I hired to work with her was obviously puzzled by Mia. After 4 sessions, she told me some horses just had problems that couldn't always be trained out of them, but she didn't want to give up yet.

After the 5th session, she told me she had concluded that Mia had never been broke to ride. She said there were just too many things that were fundamental to even a green broke horse, and Mia didn't have them. The good news, she said, was that instead of having a horse who couldn't be trained, I might have an uncommonly good-hearted horse who needed breaking. So she started Mia at the very beginning, assuming she knew nothing about being ridden - in spite of my having ridden her for over 2 years.

Did it solve all of Mia's problems? No, but it laid a solid foundation for her to understand what I was asking. With all 4 horses that I've owned for a year or more, I've noticed that what I was sold wasn't what arrived at my corral. If I bought another horse now, I'd probably automatically have a trainer put at least a couple of weeks into working with the horse to assess what it knew and what it needed to know, and to make sure it had the fundamentals. I'm sure I could tell a trainer what I expected (which isn't much), and have the trainer tell me in a week of work if the horse had holes that would cause me a problem. At $50/session for 5 sessions, I would consider that $250 well invested.

In the 5+ years I've owned Mia, the 3 best decisions I've made with her were:

1 - Stop riding her and take some lessons.

2 - Have a trainer start her over from the beginning.

3 - Switch her to a curb bit even though she didn't neck rein and wasn't a 'finished horse'.

In fact, that is probably how I would rank order my good decisions about Mia, too!

Good luck! It may not apply to your horse, but it is something to toss in the back of your noggin! And note, it is a bit surprising, but this picture:



Was taken at least a year before this picture :

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post #20 of 82 Old 06-23-2014, 03:24 PM
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I think quite a few people do not understand neck reining in its entirety. It is not laying a rein on the neck and having him move away from that pressure. That is a gross over simplification.

Neck reining begins with having the proper bend in the horse's body from poll to dock. You bend the horse's body and his neck will come into the outside rein and move from that pressure. I think you would be better off direct reining for now. As you begin to develop an independent seat your hands will get better and she will start improving as well.

There is a book that does a great job of explaining how, when, and why to use the seat, legs, and hands with illustrations that you might find helpful. It is titled The Handbook of Riding Essentials and was written by Francois Lemaire de Ruffieu.

The aids for a direct rein to make a right turn:
Right hand - Active, rotates a the wrist fingernails facing up. The movement of the hands is forward and to the right; the elbow remains in the hip area.

Left hand- Passive, goes forward and down to yield, to allow and then to regulate the action of the right hand.

Right leg- Active at the girth, slightly more forward than normal

Left leg- Active at the girth to maintain impulsion

Seat- more weight on the right seat bone

Horse response's
Nose moves to the right
Head moves to the right
Neck bends to the right
The right shoulder carries more weight than the left
Haunches follow the same path as his forehand
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