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Advice? Jumping

This is a discussion on Advice? Jumping within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        11-08-2012, 12:20 PM
      #11
    Started
    I feel bad for this horse. He is going to be so broken down and brain fried before he's even 5 years old.
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        11-08-2012, 12:20 PM
      #12
    Banned
    Really looks like you're using his mouth to catch yourself (even when not jumping), big nono. I would recommend you do more flat work, learn to ride your seat better before jumping, neither you or the horse are ready for it.

    Jumping on the "STOP JUMPING A 3 YEAR OLD" wagon, much too young imo to have him going like that, you risk ruining him physically and mentally.

    Not having a trainer can be fine, but you need to go slower and realize that you might not be able to ever jump properly without one. Get back to the flat work and slow down, this colt is not ready for what you are asking him, and neither are you.
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        11-08-2012, 12:23 PM
      #13
    Started
    Also to add. You need a lot of work on your riding. You need to do a lot of two point, two point no stirrups and no reins work. You are yanking and tearing on his mouth because you don't know how to ride without balancing yourself on your reins, which means balancing yourself on his face, which means he is going to jump incorrectly, which means you are going to make him scared to go anywhere near a pole on the ground, never mind a jump.
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        11-08-2012, 01:02 PM
      #14
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NBEventer    
    I feel bad for this horse. He is going to be so broken down and brain fried before he's even 5 years old.

    Shame, isnt it? He looks like he would be a nice horse.
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        11-08-2012, 01:10 PM
      #15
    Weanling
    I agree with everything NBEventer said!
    My friend starting jumping her horse at 3, at very high heights... he is now 6 years old, dead lame now.... she wouldn't listen to anyone of course, now she's kicking herself! So sad :(
         
        11-08-2012, 01:20 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    Let me take this approach, OP, I will not comment on the horse's age - but I will say that the information and video you have provided show me that regardless of age, this horse does not have the foundation necessary to be asked to perform in this manner. The horse needs to be taken back to flat work - not until everything is 100% solid on the flat should you expect to progress to jumping. Additionally, as stated above, you cannot teach someone something you yourself do not know - I think that the both of you would benefit from the guidance of someone who can teach you both and give you the tools and knowledge to be able to better guide your horse in his progress.
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        11-08-2012, 01:28 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    Back when I was young (ha.. LONG time ago.. in the early to mid 1970's) you used to see a lot of people riding and doing what goes on in that video. I saw it in Pony Club and the leaders and shakers in Pony Club wanted me to do that with MY horse.

    I did not and would not. I drove them nuts.. because they were pretty much amateurs who rode with the local hunt club and thought they had all the answers. I kept looking at things (and I was all of 13-15) and thought how the horses looked a bit wild and scared.. and were jumping badly. I decided to concentrate on FLAT WORK.

    I "discovered" dressage (and you all thought it came from Europe and war horses ;) ) and decided to work on that because I got looking at these horses being rushed to jump w/o the flat work foundation and did not want a horse like that.

    I made another 'discovery.' This time I realized that on any jumping course, 80% of the ride was BETWEEN fences.. and to that end most competitions I went to the horses LOST their class on the ride BETWEEN fences. I figured to work on that between fences stuff.

    Every once in awhile we would hold a horse show with an old 'knock down and Out" class (if you knocked a pole down you were out.. then they would raise the jumps and you would go again). With a cash prize to the winner, we drew people from all over for the "knock down and out."

    I was not in that league of jumping horse so I would watch.. and inevitably someone would come in that no one knew who would clean up in the knock down and out (and the other one.. Gambler's choice where jumps had points assigned to them). This person would come in and go about the course so methodically it looked SLOW (and these events also were time associated and it would turn out that the appearance was of slow.. but the time was usually very fast).

    I watched and learned. Those winners always had a strategy. The horses were calm and understood the job. They would go around the course and it was as if the horse was an Accordian.. compressing like a spring into collection and then releasing the spring into an extension one.. two or three strides in front of a jump meeting their "spot" perfectly and landing on the correct lead for the next fence.

    It was almost as if the actual jumping was an after thought.. like they were riding around and suddenly 'Oh lets jump this.' Nothing could be further from the truth.. those riders rode every fence with a pre planned strategy.

    There was no rein sawing, no head throwing and the rider was light as a feather in a two point on the horse. There were NO MISTAKES. I learned HUGELY from watching these teams... and would apply what I learned to training my horses.

    I never had a horse that was talented enough to compete at that level but I created a horse that was very good at a 2'6" course and who was reliable on the hunt field.

    The horse the OP has presented here reminds me so much of those very successful jumpers.. he is that nice a horse. He really is. His video also reminds me of the less successful horses ridden and trained by other members of Pony Club.

    He lacks training and patient flat work.. and reminds me so much of all the "also rans" at Pony Club (who often doubled as Hunters when fox hunting season came around). Those horses were often every bit as talented as the horses that won the classes.. but because their training was rushed and their riders only thought "jump Jump Jump" they never excelled.

    I am not saying any of this to be mean.. and I surely hope the OP does not get defensive (she asked). I would love to see her and her horse succeed.
         
        11-09-2012, 03:03 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    The people who have been replying to you are absolutely correct.

    I usually have no problem with people training themselves, but in my honest opinion jumping is not a discipline the majority of people can train themselves in.

    I won't comment on the horse's age, but I will say that I've seen horses used like him. Last I heard, they were lame.

    What I see is a horse and rider combo that in all honestly have no clue what they are doing. You know the saying- green and green makes black and blue. Jumping is just too dangerous to have neither horse or rider without a clue what they're doing.

    You have no two-point, no stable flat foundation, no sense of timing strides and no eye for distances.

    You catch your horse in the mouth a lot. I think that is probably contributing to the troubles you're having with him now.

    I see some rearing and such in the video. This is a dangerous habit and not to be underestimated. I see a lot of girls on youtube who seem to glorify the "my horse rears and is such a butt-head but we LOVE eachother!!11!" kind of thing. This is not wise. Please get an experienced adult to help you with this problem before it escalates.

    If you truly want to jump, my advice would be to find an instructor and learn on a school master. While taking lessons, school your own horse on the flat.

    Remember, I am not trying to be insulting. I just don't want to see you or your horse hurt.
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        11-09-2012, 03:41 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    I have always struggled with my position, which is why I will be perpetually in lessons. If your position isn't correct, all your doing is hindering the horse and making for a very unpleasant experience for all involved.

    You seem very confident, and bravo to you for trying, it's more than what I would be brave enough to do, but you haven't the proper foundation for jumping. You should nail down your basics before attempting to do any more with your own guy.

    I also advise lessons. At the very least, study some George Morris videos and video yourself over crossrails on a more experienced horse. Fix the flaws in your position or you'll have refusals and dangerous situations on any horse you try to jump.
    Cinder and NBEventer like this.
         

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