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aggresive when getting in trouble,,,long...sorry

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  • Parelli for horse with spavin hock

 
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    08-20-2008, 07:24 PM
  #11
Showing
Loved that guy at horseproblems.com ! He said this is not a case for natural horsemanship. Since Jarred is the lead horse in his little herd. Its going to take more than just getting a bond with him. I know My husband nor I can do the touchy feely loving on Fras (the lead mare) that I can do with Vida. He has to be in control of her all the time. Don't get me wrong she is a great horse but like Jarred if she is given even the least hint of any weakness she will take advantage. She went through a phase when every time I walked into the lot she would swing her butt to me (and she didn't want it scratched) I hate to say it but I started playing fullback and rushing her to the point of almost knocking her over. I'm a big farm gal and I know your fairly small so this won't work for you but you get the idea.
My point being, you may have to take a stronger hand with Jarred. At least until you get his respect.
You know how to do it, I think you are just being too timid. You want him to like you, but what you really need to be concentrating on is having him not kill you. Get big, be mean And most of all don't get hurt.

Note to other posters this is just my opinion. Please don't get on me about being mean
     
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    08-20-2008, 11:15 PM
  #12
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidaloco
Get big, be mean And most of all don't get hurt.
IME this is a very good way of increasing the liklihood of getting hurt, especially with a dominant horse who was a stallion well into maturity. Animals don't understand punishment very well for a start. By the sound of things, he is already interpretting the punishment received as a challenge to his dominance, which he rising to & winning. Making the punishment bigger will likely only result in his responses getting bigger - instead of kicking at her, he'll start to actually connect.

I agree with what *I think* Kitten Val is getting at. It's clear many don't think of the term 'respect' the same way I do, but rather think of it just as obedience that is forced if necessary - eg. The horse learns to 'respect' you because if he doesn't he gets hit, gets made to run around, etc. IMO however, 'respect' is a 2 way street - you must first have respect for the horse before you work to earn some from him. Respect cannot be forced.

I find that the safest way of dealing with this sort of attitude is to make a habit of offering some of the Good Things in life(treats, scratchies, whatever he REALLY likes) whenever he's being reasonable, and witholding them when he shows any aggression (I wouldn't count just ears back ATM, as I agree this might just be part of him, from previous experience - it will probably change as his whole attitude improves) Learning the principles of 'clicker training' will get you everywhere!

In addition, I would use approach & retreat techniques to *respectfully* desensitise and teach him to allow being brushed, having you fluff around his back legs, whatever.
     
    08-21-2008, 06:27 AM
  #13
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidaloco
Loved that guy at horseproblems.com ! He said this is not a case for natural horsemanship. Since Jarred is the lead horse in his little herd. Its going to take more than just getting a bond with him. I know My husband nor I can do the touchy feely loving on Fras (the lead mare) that I can do with Vida. He has to be in control of her all the time. Don't get me wrong she is a great horse but like Jarred if she is given even the least hint of any weakness she will take advantage. She went through a phase when every time I walked into the lot she would swing her butt to me (and she didn't want it scratched) I hate to say it but I started playing fullback and rushing her to the point of almost knocking her over. I'm a big farm gal and I know your fairly small so this won't work for you but you get the idea.
My point being, you may have to take a stronger hand with Jarred. At least until you get his respect.
You know how to do it, I think you are just being too timid. You want him to like you, but what you really need to be concentrating on is having him not kill you. Get big, be mean And most of all don't get hurt.

Note to other posters this is just my opinion. Please don't get on me about being mean
i do agree and is what I've been doing. It used to work better than it does these days :) getting him to move backwards on any level is **** near impossible. If I can start to get him to move back or away or whatever ill be half way towards gaining dominance :) I know exactly what you mean but yeah, im small lol he's big. If I barged him he would probably just stand there and look at me lol

With possum and cougar I take this approach. Not that its really needed much with either of them but when the occasion arises I get 'big' and drove them away/back and that's the end of it. The same thing with jarred is a battle. I do sometimes win. When we are in the arena and I have room to move its different. In his yard is when I have the most trouble cause I have nowhere to go.

The last couple of days I have started either putting him in the arena to work with him. He can be tied up in there. Or I tie him to this tree that's got the perfect place to tie some baling twine there and use it as a hitching tree :) this way im never really in a position where I can be cornered and in the arena I can leave a lunge whip on the ground and grab it if I need to ;) with more space im in more control. I can crack the whip right in front of myself if I need to. He does respect the lunge whip to a certain point and if I have the open yet confined space of the arena I find it works better.

I just don't want to have to battle with him. Im tired of fighting lol

Loosie - I respect him in the way that I should. While I don't 'force' respect I do expect it especially when I do nothing that should make him disrespect me. When I say expect I mean that I am doing everything I can do earn his respect therefore I should be getting it. I have done nothing to make him disrespect me therefore he has no excuse other than being a stubborn, alpha gelding who doesnt realise he's been gelded

It is true that I don't want to get hurt though ;) we will see how he goes. Maybe he's just a slow learner when it comes to ground manners

I don't want everyone to think he's a horrible mean horse. We do have many nice moments and deep beneath the gruff exterior is a lovely horse with great character. He just has some...issues although ts more like 'we' have issues ;)
     
    08-21-2008, 06:48 AM
  #14
Showing
Hm-hm.... May be he's just that one person horse, which simply doesn't accept other people? I've met 2 horses like that in my life (one gelding, one mare). Doesn't matter what groundwork/treats/etc. you did they just were resistant (actually gelding was very aggressive up to the point of being dangerous with almost everyone). If that's the case I can't even give any suggestions on what to do... :( I'd just go with what you do now - eventually it should come. I know for sure he has a great home with you, so I'd just suggest to be very very very patient...
     
    08-21-2008, 03:29 PM
  #15
Showing
I went through that fellows web site today and was surprised to see he recommended the parelli 7 games. He pretty much dismissed the rest of it but stated the 7 games was brilliant. Something you might consider.
http://www.horseproblems.com.au/pat_parelli_7_games.htm
     
    08-21-2008, 03:31 PM
  #16
Green Broke
Some horses just don't like the people they are with. I saw a similar thing where I board and no matter what the lady tried the horse acted the same way. She finally realized they just didn't mesh well and sold him.

Hopefully that's not the case with you, but it's something to think of.
     
    08-22-2008, 03:02 AM
  #17
Weanling
Well my girl is 4 and for 2-3 years I've been going through the same. Faith has a real dominance issue, she's not one to back down first and being that we are both as stubborn as each other we've had our fair share of barneys.

She's like your boy, leathal from both ends. I had my chiro out treating another mare, and Faith was getting nosey, so he gently pushed her away, no more than a touch on the shoulder, she promptly turned around and double barrelled him in the thigh

She was always worse at feed time. She'd try and bite when I was within reach of her mouth and she'd kickout if I was behind.

My solution, now this will upset/anger some people and for that I'm sorry, I'm not saying 'do this' I'm just saying that it helped in my situation. Please don't condemn me

If you watch horses having an argument in the paddock, the winner is the one who gets in the last kick/bite. I was loosing my battle until someone mentioned this to me, so how did I have the 'last laugh' without getting my head bashed.bitten off?.........

I met up with Poly! Who became my best friend and ally for a few weeks.

I hear you say "huh!??"

Poly is a 2-3ft long piece of 3inch poly pipe, the type used in watering systems. If Faith EVER threatened me, I laid into her! Now she'd come back at me, but as long as I got in the last 'kick' I won! After she'd stop we'd have cuddles to reinforce the good (her stopping)

Now for those who are ready to black list my name forever, try hitting yourself with it first. Poly doesn't really hurt a human, so it sure didn't hurt Faith. It does however make a very 'angry' noise.

After a week or two, I just had to carry Poly and Faith knew. Now all she'll do is flick her ears at me.

So for me it worked, I will never be alpha mare, but we are on equal footing now and have a much calmer relationship.

Sorry about the size of this novel!
     
    08-22-2008, 09:42 AM
  #18
Trained
Frog, I totally see where you are comming from with poly. When we very first got our horses I had a stick. It was just a random stick that fell out of the tree but it was semi-straight and around 2 1/2 -3 feet long. I never had to "whack" either of my boys but I did let them run into it when we were feeding. I held it out like an extension of my arm. It only took a couple weeks of me carrying a big stick (and walking softly I couldn't resist) for the boyz to quit acting like jerks at feeding time and to respect my space.

I began whacking my boot with the stick the first 2 days to make some noise and let the horses know that it was a whoopin' stick should they get out of line. I don't need it now, but I still have it propped up in the barn in case I need it. To me its really not for whoopin'.....its more of a space equilizer.
     
    08-22-2008, 11:08 AM
  #19
Trained
Hock Problems!!! Classic sign of them too!

There is a horse at my barn that does the same thing and he has severe bone spavin that his owners refuse to treat because "he's just grouchy" even though he has to be sedated before he'll let you touch his hocks and even then he kicks out.
Don't let the horse get to that point and get a vet out to evaluate his hocks. They are probably what caused/is causing the back problems too.
If it is bog spavin then you are looking at constant injections and reduced riding time. For bone spavin, the best way to treat it is with laser surgery and a lot of time off. Then they are good as new!

I always stand by the theory that unless horses have been treated poorly by humans, they always want to please us. Horses always try to know what we want and try to do it. If it they don't understand and/or hurts whether it's a physical problem or you start hitting the poor thing, that is when they start getting behavioral problems. Rule out all physical problems and then if all else fails call Willy Arts.
     
    08-22-2008, 02:01 PM
  #20
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~
Hock Problems!!!
I always stand by the theory that unless horses have been treated poorly by humans, they always want to please us. Horses always try to know what we want and try to do it. If it they don't understand and/or hurts whether it's a physical problem or you start hitting the poor thing, that is when they start getting behavioral problems. Rule out all physical problems .
Boy this was a long read to get to this answer.LOL

I couldn't agree more. I would have this horse looked over head to tail.

Not only hock issues but I would have him checked for ulcers.

I don't really have an issue with a horse who's ears are back, that's a whatever. The main issues are the biting and kicking. You've certainly owned him long enough that the leadership issue should be a non-issue.

As above if he vets out good, after flexion test and scoping then I would say it's time for some help.

Good luck, you got yourself a dozier.
     

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